Experimenter Page #9

the funniest thing in the world.

I laugh too.

Then they give me hunks of

peanut brittle and let me go.

It took me 30 years

before I told anyone.

Where was this, Ossie?

Down South?

Well, it doesn't matter where,

and that's my point.

You don't have to go to Germany

to learn about

obedience to authority.

This in the book. Actually,

it's the tenth chapter,

- which very few people get to.

- The Tenth Level.

The agentic state,

in which the demands of

the democratically installed

authority conflict with conscience.

The Banality of Evil.

I don't take responsibility.

Do you take responsibility?

I take responsibility.

Now count that as wrong.

No response counts as wrong.

You pull the switch then, dammit!

Come on, you pull the switch!

Mr. Dahlquist, that's your job.

No, I won't.

Nobody can learn anything

like this.

There was a time, I suspect,

when men and women

could give a fully human

response to any situation.

When we could be fully absorbed

in the world as human beings.

But more often, now,

people don't get to see

the whole situation

but only some small part of it.

There's a division of labor,

and people carry out small,

narrow, specialized jobs,

and we can't act without some

kind of direction from on high.

I call this "the agentic state".

The individual yields to authority,

and in doing so becomes

alienated from his own actions.

Mr. Dahlquist,

you agreed to the rules.

The agentic state is "store policy".

It's, "I'm just doing my job."

Or, "That's not my job."

Or, "I don't make the rules."

"We don't do that here."

"Just following orders."

"It's the law."

In the agentic state,

the individual defines himself

as an instrument carrying out

the wishes of others.

A soldier, a nurse,

an administrator.

An actor.

A corporate employee, or even,

yes, academics and artists.

- Please continue.

- Oh, God. Oh, God.

- Mr. Dahlquist?

- Just shut up a minute!

Now, hold on.

- Come on, come on.

- Son of a b*tch!

A person has a choice.

He or she chooses

to become agentic.

But once you assume the role,

it's almost impossible to go back.

Wrong.

A hundred

and ninety five volts.

"Dance."

Let me out of here! Let me out!

- Continue, please.

- We always asked,

"Is there anything

the man could've said

to stop you from administering

the shocks?"

And they'd always say,

"No, I don't think so. No."

I told you

I have a heart condition!

Michele.

Sit up here. All right?

Could we get a couple of

hot chocolates?

- You want hot chocolate?

- Yes, please.

- Hot chocolates all around?

- Yeah, yeah.

Do you want anything?

Okay, no, we're fine.

I need you to stay put,

stay in your seats. Okay?

I'm sorry.

I could say it a thousand times

and mean it every time.

Marc, turn around in your seat.

Piaget.

You remember when

I was translating Piaget?

I hit this line about

child development.

It's the specific point when

the growing child is able

to recognize a gap between what

exists and what might exist.

And it occurred to me,

we choose our reality

when we choose another person.

What does that mean?

Marriage is not a fantasy.

No, no, no, right.

Right.

But it is a choice.

You have to know that I choose you.

Every day I choose you.

1984 was a big year for me.

My lecture fees peaked,

I was asked to speak

all over the world, about

the obedience experiments,

of course, in relation to

Orwell's prophetic book.

A book that describes

a totalitarian world

where people aren't very good

at thinking for themselves.

Who can explain it?

Who can tell you why

Fools give you reasons

Wise men never try

1984 was also the year

that I died.

I was 51.

Excuse me? We need to see

a doctor immediately.

I'm Stanley Milgram.

This is my ID.

I believe I'm having

my fifth heart attack.

Dr. Heissenbuttel...

That's who treated me last time.

You need to fill this out.

The agentic personality.

No one can truly know

what they might or might not do

when presented with the demands

of a particular situation.

In 2008, a professor at Santa

Clara University replicated

the obedience experiments and

got roughly the same results.

Over 60 percent of volunteers

delivered the full shocks.

In 2010, the experiments

were duplicated

on a French reality TV show,

Le Jeu de la Mort,

The Game of Death.

Participants were egged on by

a live studio audience.

Over 80 percent went all the way.

Alexandra Milgram, Sasha,

continues to live in

the apartment we shared

in Riverdale. Our children live

with their children

near Boston and Toronto.

Sasha never remarried.

The obedience experiments are

cited and discussed

in nearly every introductory

psychology textbook worldwide.

My obedience film is screened

for every incoming class

at West Point.

And my methods and results

continue to be challenged,

scorned, debunked,

yet every time a new outrage is

unleashed into the world,

sanctioned and systematic acts

of violence,

the obedience experiments

re-enter the conversation,

re-framing unanswerable questions.

You could say we're puppets.

But I believe that we are puppets

with perception,

with awareness.

Sometimes we can see the strings

and, perhaps,

our awareness is the first step

in our liberation.

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