If I Should Fall from Grace: The Shane MacGowan Story Page #5

and Shane certainly changed at that point

he seemed quite disillusioned and cynical

about the whole business of

of being on the road

about performing

it seemed to have taken

a huge toll on his psyche

he seemed to have no

space to just be himself

they started to act like rock stars

they started to think like rock stars

they were great musicians

I mean... like... so what?

you know what I mean? you know?

I mean... uhh... you know

but I mean... like... uhh...

that doesn't give you any... rights

you know what I mean? you know?

above any other human being

you know what I mean? you know?

there was a... there was... umm

and underlying sort of resentment

against Shane in the band

because all the media would

want to speak to Shane... all right?

umm... and... of course

it was alot more than that

let's just say one...

one particular subject

and they... they liked

to think about themselves

as a nine piece band

where everybody had an equal input

and equal importance

so... sometimes I felt that... umm

people were objecting to his opinions

not based upon his actual opinions

but simply because they just got fed up

with it being

Shane Shane Shane Shane

it was never my band

we were a democratic band... you know?

and then in the end

like I wasn't involved

in the democracy anymore

the system was to blame... yeah?

we thought we could beat the system

and we couldn't

we had set out to beat the system

they said... you know... we don't

really want you to go... you know?

I mean... we need you

I mean all this... you know?

you know... give us a

couple more years... I mean

you know... uhh... you know

you know... I didn't like...

because I don't want to fight or anything

you know... I mean

I was easy persuaded to

carry on... you know

things will get better... you know

but things got worse

somehow from the outside

there was this farcical idea

that the Pogues were allowing

Shane MacGowan to kill himself

that in fact we might

even have welcomed the idea

and nothing could be farther from the truth

we cared very deeply about Shane

and still do

ultimately we're his best friends

I mean... you know...

he might speak ill of us now

all these years later occasionally

but he doesn't really mean it

it was like a bunch of guys

who just cared about each very much

but like there

there always comes a point

where you can only help

somebody so much

I wanted to make an Irish

album for the Ulsterhouse (?) kids

so if you get out ???

and you listen... it's a piece of love

you'll find that all

my tracks are in the house beat (?)

the touring was getting to me

and the... uhh... constant

arguments and stuff... you know?

we were starting to sound

tired and... uhh... jaded

yes... you know... i mean it was

sounding like we should call it a day

you know

we should have... like... called

it a day at that stage... yeah

if we'd left it at that note

we would have got out a bit

graciously... you know

but making Hell's Ditch

was a ridiculous mistake

basically the problem

is... like... the singing...

the singing isn't as good as it could be

the playing isn't either actually

but the singing is definitely very...

my voice is deteriorating

you know I remember seeing

the uhh... seeing the Pogues

in some festival in France

the show was falling to... falling to bits

umm... Shane didn't know

what songs they were playing and it was

you know it was one of those kind of

those kind of classic uhh... moments

and the... the worse Shane became

the more the audience kind of adored him

and until the concert was

pretty much unlistenable

they were playing some horrendous kind

of Rolling Stones cover

or something like that

and... uhh... really

pandering to this audience

in this way and I found that

from a band that could be so great

quite kind of sickening to watch actually

and I find that element... I always found

I always found that element of the Pogues

kind of disappointing in a way

because they could be so great

you know but then again

at the sound check of that concert

Shane was in better form and came on

and just sang the song with

his hands in his pockets

singing this song at the sound check

and I've never heard anything so beautiful

it was just. . . you know. . .

it was just unbelievable

Hell's Ditch was my own sort of uhh

crash landing if you like

I knew at that point that I had

a serious problem with it and that

it was going to be a tough one to beat

because it's the equivalent of being in a

brewery and trying to stop drinking

being on the road with

the Pogues... you know

but that's not to say that there wasn't

personal responsibility involved

I was prepared to take

the personal responsibility

but at that point in my life

I found it very very difficult

it was just easier to succummb

to the... to the drink... you know

I was always saying, "We gotta

stop touring so much."

you know what I mean... you know?

but they wouldn't... they didn't

agree with me and so on... you know

so they obviously didn't think

they were paying a high price you know

if they think they paid a high price now

you know... I hate to say I told you so...

did we sack Shane MacGowan

there is the question

no... it's just never as simple as that

what actully happened was

it was becoming very obvious that the band

wanted to carry on playing at something

like the level we were playing

and Shane was getting more and more

disenchanted with that and wanted to

spend more time at home

and mainly the way he was telling us that

was by the inconsistency of his behaviour

you know Shane's not the sort of a person

who can tell you in a straight way

look I really don't...

I'm just not digging this

so he would have to go around the houses

and tell you in some complicated way

that you eventually get the message

and then he would make it look like

you're telling him this... you know?

so that it would be all you fault...

you're telling him he can't do this anymore

in fact he'd just gone to extreme lengths

to make you understand that that's the case

ahh... and Shane is magnificent at

twisting everything around to that purpose

so I think he probably

thinks we sacked him yes

but he knows in his heart that it's not true

they fired him... I was at the meeting

they fired him

I was venomously against it

it was in Japan after a particularly

bad couple of years as far as

some people were concerned

but the reason Shane

wasn't performing as well

and the reason he withdrew and

got as out of it as he did was because of

the situation that he found himself in

they were trying to phase

Irish music out altogether

you know what I mean?

which is insane

you know what I mean?

I said, "What do you mean?"

that's what we do... is Irish music

you know... that's what we do

that's what we do

like the Specials do ska and the

and the f***ing Rolling Stones do R and B

you know what I mean?

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