Poached Page #8

past egg collectors, you know?

That's how they started,

as a boyhood thing.

It's a past that I am ashamed

about, you know, in some respects.

But obviously, it's given

me the knowledge to find,

find nests

like I do now, you know?

If it wasn't for that, then

I wouldn't know how to do it.

[David] I think we should

be striving to make

the most of the information

that's held by ex-collectors.

Quite frankly, they are some

of the only people who know how

to find the most

difficult nests,

and the data collected

is absolutely vital.

Those information

really underpin

conservation efforts in the UK.

[John] I've been trying to

meet with the RSPB for a long time,

and today I'm actually going

to sit down with Guy Shorrock,

you know, and talk about

a few of these issues.

You know, I met

Mr. Shorrock in 2006

when I was going through the

court case over the goshawk.

And, you know, he

seemed a nice guy.

I felt a lot

of respect for him.

But he knew that

his colleague who

was always fighting against me

never got anything out of me.

I'll go in with an

open mind,

and I'll evaluate how much

information I'm going to tell him.

And I'll soon find out whether

they really want to help me

move on, or they're just still

interested in persecuting me

and fighting against me.

So, you know, we'll see

how this one pans out.

[indistinct chatter]

...the profile of people who get

convicted of these sorts of offenses,

20 years or so...

[John] Hello, Mr. Shorrock, uh, it's

been a long time, no see. I don't...

- You'll remember me, after, you know--

- I do, yeah.

Hopefully, we're meeting

under better circumstances.

Yeah, that's right.

How are you doing?

Uh, I'm doing really

good at the moment.

Is there any way we

could set up a meeting

and I could, um, educate you a bit more

about where I'm going and things like that.

Absolutely, yeah.

All right, then, cheers.

Thanks very much, cheers.

I'm putting a lot

on the line today.

I'm bringing me friend

with me, Matthew,

and I've asked him to operate

my hand-held camcorder.

So then, you know, I've also got a

documentation of this interview.

You know, he gives me his word

that I won't get prosecuted

for something and then this

court case starts coming,

I've got something

evidential to back me up.

Oh, are you ready?

[John]

Oh, hello, Mr. Shorrock.

Yeah, thanks for, um, you know,

giving me this opportunity.

No problem. Have a seat.

Yeah, yeah, let's just

bring some stuff around.

So what are you doing at the moment? Are

you actually in full-time work, holiday?

Oh, what's happened, I've been a lot of

ups and downs, especially since 2007.

And I've had a young boy, and so he's

inspired me to go do things and that.

But I was going through a lot of depression

at the time and things like that

and especially after the court case and even

during the court case and things like that.

It's not a nice environment.

And, um, it got

that bad at one time,

- Considered taking my own life.

- God almighty.

See, it's still quite

raw to me, this stuff.

Yeah, you've got to get this

thing in perspective sometimes.

I mean, at the end of the

day, it was-- You know,

in the overall scheme of things,

it was a disturbance offense.

It's not murder.

I know it's personal

to you, but--

I'm on the understanding

that you still think

that I made those goshawk

eggs become unviable.

I work in evidence, John.

It's as simple as that.

So I've got, you know,

you at a nest site.

I've got a failed goshawk nest,

and some eggs to a scientist.

And all he can do is

give me a date range

and say, they probably

fell between these days.

And one of the dates

that you were at the nest

was sort of in that range.

The problem for you was it

was a premeditated visit.

That's something that I

don't want on my record.

John, look, no dispute.

I don't think anybody,

me or my colleague James

who dealt with it, thought for one

second you meant those birds any harm.

I don't think anybody did that.

But this is why there's

a licensing system.

I know.

And, you know, you put your foot

over the line, and you got caught.

But, you know, I have

done so much more

than just been a naughty boy

in the past.

Our perception of you

is somebody who's

had a bad choice of friends and

has gone out with egg collectors

because it gave you opportunities

to get some photographs as well.

There's a lot of people that are going to be

watching this documentary and stuff like that.

What's the gist on the--

Like, say somebody's died,

and there's a collection

being handed down and--

- We get this all the time.

- I know.

[John] I just need to know a

bit more about it as well.

Basically, all my job is about

catching wildlife criminals.

I'm not really interested in somebody

who's found something in the loft.

I'd like to open up on

you and this and that.

Um, you know, and I don't want to go to any

more court cases and this type of deal.

But, um, August last year, an

antique dealer friend of mine

actually got in touch me.

And he said he's cleaning an

house out for someone who died.

And he said that he's got a

massive egg collection,

he said,

with all the data cards,

and it's all legal.

You've got the data

for all the collection?

That's what I thought

when I took it.

- And because I want-- - Right,

John, let me just cut you off.

Let me just cut you

off, there, John.

One of the problems is with

these old egg collections,

we've had cases where

people have got old eggs.

And it's an opportunity for

them to hide new eggs in there.

Well, I give you my word. I've never, ever

added to that. There's nothing there.

You can come and check

and check everything.

Well, you've just got to

be really careful, John,

because I get the

impression that your past is

a bigger stumbling block in

your life than it really is.

I just really-- I don't think your

past is an issue at all, honestly.

By the same token, you have to bear in mind

that you don't want it come back to haunt you.

I know--

So you just can't put

yourself in positions

with having eggs in your

house, with getting caught

near rare breeding birds, whether

it's in this country or in Europe.

So you've just got to make sure

that you're absolutely on the ball.

So I can have your word that I'm

not going to have me door come off

and loads of hassle

and that and stuff.

Well, I can't give you my

word because I could get down

to my desk tomorrow, and some

reliable source could ring up,

saying you've got an egg

collection in your house

with somebody else's

eggs hidden inside them.

No, I haven't.

[interposing voices]

Do you think I'd be opening this up

if I have, you know what I mean?

I can't say I won't do my job

if the information comes in.

On Monday, I'll start the ball

rolling on this to start moving

this on and that, so

as soon as because this

is important to get this, like,

monkey off my back and that.

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