Showrunners: The Art of Running a TV Show Page #6

And the script came in and I hated it.

It was terrible.

And I just said,

"I won't shoot the script."

And so the network said,

"Yes, you will."

And we had this big, ugly

conference call about it.

And, uh, there was this moment

on the call

where the network said,

"Well, if that's how you feel,

then maybe we should

just say goodbye."

And I realized, well,

this is it, this is the moment.

They're gonna call your bluff on this.

And I said,

"Then, okay, let's do that."

And then they said, "fine,"

and they hung up.

And then, hundreds of phone calls,

like everyone's calling each other.

"I can't believe he said that!

He's not really serious!"

Everyone was really, really upset,

but I really was serious.

I wasn't gonna shoot that script.

And, uh, the whole thing fell apart,

and it cost

a couple million dollars and, uh,

it was a disaster at the time.

It was a huge disappointment to me,

'cause I was very attached

to those books,

and I thought that we were gonna

do justice by these books.

And my agent at the time,

whether he believed it or not,

said, "No, no. This, you know...

Believe me, people like it

"when you say no,

and you'll get a reputation

as someone who has integrity

and, dah-dah-dah."

I chose at the time to believe that.

We always wanted

to reward the viewers

who watched week to week,

but not punish ones

who were coming new to the show.

That kind of self-contained

story of the week

just so happens to line up

really, really nicely

with the kinds of procedural-based

episodic crime shows

that CBS knows how to make

really well,

and then beyond that,

the story that we wanted to tell

is this larger novel-like story

that's similar

to the shows that are

flourishing right now on cable.

And I think the network

knows that, you know,

the audience's tastes are changing.

If you liken the procedural...

which we've never thought of

as a four-letter word,

we've always kind of embraced them.

I grew up watching

Magnum, P.I. and Miami Vice

and Hill Street Blues

and all these amazing shows.

But, the shows that are

flourishing right now

are these serialized

novel-like shows on cable.

But, broadcast was always

capable of doing both.

So, it's a different way of doing it.

You still have

a massive, massive audience,

far bigger, uh, than cable,

watching broadcast television.

We regularly have 14...15 million people

watching our show, which dwarfs

any of the audiences

of these cable shows.

There's that Tom and Jerry

cartoon effect,

where it's like

if Tom gets blown up by dynamite

and then you fade to black,

and then you come up,

and then he's just chasing Jerry again,

it's not as interesting to me as Tom

gets blown up by dynamite

and now in the next scene

he's in the hospital rehabilitating,

trying to figure out

where he went wrong.

Um, so, you know, I do feel like

life is serialized,

life is not a procedural,

and therefore,

that's the kind of storytelling

that I like to watch,

and it's the kind of storytelling

that I like to write.

That being said, I think that, um,

it's unfair to categorize

shows as procedural

or serialized, or one working

better than the other.

I think that that's what

networks like to do.

But, at the end of the day,

if you put something cool

in front of them, they don't care

whether it's a serialized

or a procedural

or a marriage of both, you know?

I think there are shows

like The Good Wife now

that are procedural shows,

but are actually

stealth serialized shows,

and that's why

they're getting nominated for Emmys.

We would agree that it's a bit of a...

a wolf in sheep's clothing.

There are certain elements

that we have to satisfy

to be on CBS, to be show that has

a story that we tell within

the episode, has cases.

And so, it's partly that,

and partly characters

that weave through it.

We don't do a lot of

just character scenes

or just personal scenes,

that the personal tends to

come on the procedural plot.

We do 23 episodes a year.

These other shows do 13 a year.

I wouldn't call it

bitterness on our part

that we have towards cable.

Cable is very much

"the grass is greener on that side."

I hope I'm at HBO for my entire career.

Um, I mean,

it's just been the best place

I've ever worked for

so many different reasons.

Creatively, it's great.

I mean, I could theoretically

work at a network.

I would never say never, but I know...

I know what that means.

That's one of the great

things about working

for HBO:
they let you do your job.

And you know, it's not to say

there aren't conversations.

There are,

but they're never mandates,

and they're never...

They're never notes

that are born of cowardice,

where they're afraid

to alienate people

or offend people, or you know...

Because they're not trying to sell

commercial airtime or product.

So, it's based on,

"Just do the best show you can do."

We have an incredible

amount of freedom on premium cable.

So, going back to network

television would be difficult

on a creative level.

The tradeoff, of course,

is the amount of money

that you can make on

22 episodes of a show

in network is phenomenally large.

Uh, much larger than

I make on this show.

But, I do have that...

that taste of that freedom.

As much freedom

as you do have in cable

compared to network,

you know, the network is...

You know, they were up my ass

during the pilot process, you know,

and really, you know, micromanaging

pretty much every detail.

Because that's...

That's the time

that they feel like they have

the most input, you know?

And, and, and not that it...

Not that it f***ed me up

or strayed...

or made me stray off my vision.

But, they're very engaged

and very hands on.

Um, but the good thing

is that once the show

gets established and...

and you earn their trust,

that they honor that.

It's not like

groundhog day every season,

like you gotta prove yourself again.

I personally don't

see as big a difference

between network and cable

as other people have.

And I also think some

of these cable channels

have kind of perpetuated

this myth that artists

have complete freedom

at these networks.

And yet, I've talked to

people and heard about

notes calls at these networks.

So, I'm not sure that's exactly it.

I think it's a case by case situation.

Does the network trust

you to do the job?

If they do you're gonna

get a lot of freedom.

If they sense a void in leadership,

they're gonna rush in to fill it,

no matter what network it's at.

Hello.

Uh, we're gonna have a set of, uh...

There's gonna be a quartet playing.

Piano, cello, violin, viola.

Once we get the okay to book them,

then I'll get sizes to you.

'Cause we'll have the stand-ins.

I think between casting the next episode,

being on set

for the episode you're shooting,

being in the writer's room

dealing with budgets and everything,

I would say that

showrunning is as much

a feat of choreography

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