Taxi to the Dark Side Page #13

[Senator John McCain] Is it still permissible to use a wet towel and dripping water

to induce the misperception of suffocation?

[Lt. General Randall M. Schmidt, Author of "Schmidt Report"] The use of the wet towel, dripping water to induce the misperception of suffocation

was one of the techniques requested by the JTF in their laundry list given up.

It was never approved. It has never been a technique approved.

[Professor Alfred McCoy, author A Question of Torture] One of the techniques that made the transition from the regime of the physical to the psychological...

in fact the only one...was waterboarding. Because in the medieval era, under the Inquisition,

it was done because of its horrible, physical aspects. It was done to purge and punish the heretic.

You force water down the throat of the victim. The victim thinks that he's drowning. It's horrible.

Your body tells you that you're dying.

Right after 9/11, the CIA got approval from the White House for waterboarding.

An early test case involved the interrogation of Ibn Sheikh al Libi,

a man suspected of being the Emir of an al Qaeda training camp.

Initially, the FBI was in charge of his interrogation.

But the Administration was impatient with the slow results of the FBI's law enforcement techniques.

So they turned al Libi over to the CIA.

[Jack Cloonan, FBI Special Agent 1977-2002] He is secured. He was either duct-taped or hooded.

And he was going to be put into a box...

a plywood box for his own protection [makes disbelief sound]...for transfer to the airport.

[Professor Alfred McCoy, author A Question of Torture] They throw him on an aircraft, and they rendered him

through extraordinary rendition, to Egypt.

They later subjected him to two weeks of brutal torture, involving all of these techniques, including waterboarding.

And they got information from al Libi stating

that Saddam Hussein's regime had trained al Qaeda in chemical and biological warfare.

[Scott Horton, Attorney] One of the things we know about torture is that someone who is tortured

will tell his interrogator what he thinks the interrogator wants to hear.

[Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell] The moment al Libi was waterboarded,

he started blurting things out. Well, rather than questioning what he was saying,

and going into it in detail to see if what he was saying could be corroborated,

they immediately stopped and ran off to report what al Libi had said.

And ended the torture. And bang...it gets up to the highest decision-makers

And all of a sudden Colin Powell is told, "Hey, you don't have to worry about your doubts anymore,

because we've just gotten confirmation that there were contacts between al Qaeda and Baghdad.

In February, 2003, then Secretary of State Colin Powell went before the United Nations to make the case for the war in Iraq.

[Colin Powell, Secretary of State] I can trace the story of a senior terrorist operative

telling how Iraq provided training in these weapons to al Qaeda.

Fortunately, this operative is now detained, and he has told his story.

[Professor Alfred McCoy, author A Question of Torture] A year later, the CIA branded al Libi a fabricator,

and rescinded all of the intelligence reports with that information in it.

So, in other words, you will get information, but you'll get false information.

[Scott Horton, Attorney] I think Colin Powell said that was the most embarrassing day of his entire life.

[Rear Admiral John Hutson (ret) Judge Advocate General] All the experts say that torturing people is not the best way to get information.

Breaking down the barriers between you and them, gaining their confidence is the best way to get it.

It takes some experience. It takes some talent. It takes some patience.

And then they might actually tell you something that is worthwhile.

And then if you want to prosecute them and execute them, go ahead.

[Jack Cloonan, Counterterrorism Task Force] If you want to be able to build a rapport with somebody,

You are their salvation, because their life as they know it is over.

"Is there something I can do for your kids? You concerned about them?

Do you want them educated? I'll get them educated.

What do you want? Tell me what you want. Script for me your exit strategy."

"How do you extricate yourself from this terrible situation that, by the way, you put yourself in?"

"Now, you can't go back home, can you?

No. So let's make peace with that. Let me help you find the strategy to give you a life."

And that's the way it worked!

The amount of information that they were able to provide us, pre-9/11,

to me it was extremely valuable. Who else was going to tell us about how you joined al Qaeda?

What did buy-out mean? How did they communicate?

Did they use Emaar-set satellite phones. Did Bin Laden use a body double?

So when we got all that information, we were able to do certain operations.

Cumbersome though it may be, it still to me was the way to do it.

And we don't have to apologize to anybody.

We don't know what revenge is coming down the road.

And if I wanted to incite the faithful, I'd just take that one picture with the dog collar on,

and just point to that. And look at the young brothers and say,

"You're duty bound now to get revenge."

[Professor Alfred McCoy, author A Question of Torture] The advocates of torture generally focus on the hypothetical.

They have this ticking bomb scenario they talk about ...

[Clive Stafford Smith, lawyer for Guantanamo detainees] which is, imagine that there's a ticking time bomb in Times Square.

It's about to go off. We've got the guy in custody.

He says he wants a lawyer. Do we respect his right to a lawyer?

Or to save a million lives do we apply the electrodes to his testicles?

[Professor Alfred McCoy, author A Question of Torture] 24, week after week, has on-camera displays of brutal torture ...

[Kiefer Sutherland] Just tell me what your connection with the terrorists is?

designed to stop some terrorist with a ticking bomb from killing hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of Americans.

[Superior] You're talking about torturing this man?

[Kiefer Sutherland] I'm talking about doing what is necessary to stop this warhead from being used against us.

[Clive Stafford Smith, Lawyer for Guantanamo detainees, including Moazzam Begg] It's just nonsense, though! Because then you ask,

"Hey, name me one time in the last 500 years when we've had someone in custody with a ticking time bomb?"

[Jack Cloonan, Counterterrorism Task Force] The likelihood of that ever happening is so remote.

Even if you're in that situation, who is to say if you beat 'em up, that you're going to get that information?

If a guy is that committed, I think he'll die before he gives it up.

[Professor Alfred McCoy, author A Question of Torture] Right after the release of the Abu Ghraib photos in mid-2004,

35% of Americans polled believed that torture was acceptable under some circumstances.

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