Taxi to the Dark Side Page #5

A lot of what needs to be done here will have to be done quietly, without any discussion,

using sources and methods that are available to our Intelligence Agencies.

If we're going to be successful! That's the world these folks operate in.

And so it's going to be vital for us to use any means at our disposal basically to achieve our objective.

[Scott Horton, Chair, Committee on International Law, NYC Bar Association] It's very clear that it starts in the office of Vice-President Cheney.

He had a very strong view that we were not as aggressive

in dealing with people in interrogations as we could or should be.

"Taking the gloves off." Being rough with detainees.

If Dick Cheney was the primary architect of a new policy, John Yoo was the chief draftsman.

He wrote guiding opinions that argued for a flexible approach to treating suspected terrorists.

[John Yoo, Dept. of Justice, Office of Legal Counsel 2001-2003] The United States used to treat terrorism as a criminal justice problem.

The September 11th attacks showed that the struggle with Al Qaeda had moved into warfare.

And I think when a foreign entity for political purposes, can kill 3,000 Americans, and cause billions of dollars of damage,

And try to eliminate the leaders of the American government,

That sounds like war to most people. It doesn't sound like crime.

President Bush declared a war on terror.

But he raised questions about whether suspected terrorists should be protected by the laws of war:

The Geneva Conventions.

Atrocities that shocked the conscience of the world gave rise to the modern Geneva Conventions.

International treaties meant to provide fundamental protections for every human being captured in wartime.

In effect for over 50 years, Geneva offered legal protections and prohibited interrogators

from using torture, murder, or even humiliating and degrading treatment.

After 9/11, John Yoo worked closely with Dick Cheney's office and Alberto Gonzales, counsel to the President.

They wrote a series of memos arguing that the Geneva Conventions did not apply to suspected terrorists.

And they gave legal cover for the CIA and Special Forces

to embark on a secret program of previously forbidden interrogation techniques.

["President" George Bush] More than 3,000 suspected terrorists have been arrested in many countries.

Many others have met a different fate. Let's put it this way:

They are no longer a problem to the United States and our friends and allies!

The problem for the President, Gonzales warned,

was that some of the new interrogation techniques were banned under U.S. and International law.

[Rear Admiral John Hutson (Ret., Former Judge Advocate General, 30 Years Military experience] One of the points that he makes is

that we don't want the Geneva Conventions to apply,

because if they do, these things can be war crimes.

[Alberto Mora, General Counsel to the Navy, 2001-2006] What's well known is the principle of command responsibility.

This was established in the Nuremberg trials after World War II.

And it established the principle of International Criminal Law.

That individuals who order illegal treatment will be held accountable

for the illegal treatment, even if they're not immediately applying that kind of abusive treatment.

To be certain that Americans interrogating prisoners would not be accused of torture,

John Yoo co-authored a memo that would clarify the meaning of the term.

[Senator Carl Levin, Senate Armed Services Committee] The only prohibited acts would be extreme acts,

which are equivalent to serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily functions, or even death.

That's an illegal memo. That's the so-called "torture memo."

[Alberto Gonzales, Attorney General Confirmation Hearing] That was an arguable interpretation of the law.

I'm sure we had discussions about it. And ultimately, it was accepted.

Because that was the ultimate decision and position of the Office of Legal Counsel.

[Alberto Mora, General Counsel to the Navy, 2001-2006] The office of Legal Counsel memorandum was unbounded.

Meaning that nowhere did it state that the application of cruel and unhuman

and degrading treatment was prohibited.

And at one point I asked John Yoo, "Can the President authorized torture?"

And his response was "Yes."

[John Yoo, Dept. of Justice, Office of Legal Counsel 2001-2003] I think the lawyer's job is to tell people what laws do or do not apply,

so that they know what space they have to make their policy decision.

Military lawyers were outraged by the implications of John Yoo's memo.

[Scott Horton, Chair, Committee on International Law, NYC Bar Association] My first involvement in this came

when I was visited by a group of very senior JAG officers [JAG=Judge Advocate General]

more than a year before the first story about Abu Ghraib broke,

Who were very troubled about what was going on.

And the focus of their concern was failing in the responsibilities that the military leadership had to soldiers in the field.

That was responsibility to provide

fair, clear guidance to them as to how to behave in these difficult circumstances.

And what they saw was an intentional decision taken at the height of the Pentagon

to put out a fog of ambiguity, coupled with great pressure to bring results.

To be prepared to be violent with the detainees.

But, you know, this violence with the detainees is a criminal act.

[Senator John McCain] They may be Al Qaeda. They may be Taliban.

They may be the worst people in the world, and I'm sure that some of them are.

But there are certain basic rules, and international agreements that the United States has agreed to

That we will observe. You go ahead and please respond. You wanted to.

[Lt. General Randall M. Schmidt, Author of "Schmidt Report"] Okay, very quickly, let me clarify. The President's policy:

"As a matter of policy the United States Armed Forces shall continue to treat detainees humanely,

and to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of Geneva."

[Senator John McCain] That is a legalistic statement and one that is ridden with loopholes.

And it is clear to me that the interrogators did not understand that "humane treatment" might be in the eye of the beholder.

In the field in Afgan, there was a great deal of confusion about exactly what the rules were.

[SPC. Glendale Walls, 519th Mil-Intel, Interrogated Dilawar at Bagram] They told us when dealing with the PUCs

as they called them, the Persons Under U.S. Custody,

"They don't fall under Geneva Conventions."

Basically, the only thing we weren't allowed to do is beat 'em up.

"Person Under Control," "Person Under Custody." Something like that.

You know, they call them anything to dehumanize them so that you don't look at them as people.

[SGT. Thomas Curtis, Mil-Pol, Bagram] I don't remember hearing anything about Geneva Convention.

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