The Problem with Apu Page #2

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Why, you little!

But they were funny and smart,

and they looked really weird.

No one had really seen

animation like this on --

on network TV before.

"The Simpsons" were huge.

They were everywhere.

T-shirts, toys,

candy bar commercials,

chicken commercials,

car commercials,

and even bizarre car commercials

from France.

They were

an international phenomenon.

And you're a huge

"Simpsons" fan.

Um, yeah.

It was something

that I grew up with,

and it was something

that was always on the TV

when I came home

from school.

Did you guys grow up

watching "The Simpsons"?

Absolutely.

I love that show.

I loved that you could watch

the episodes again and again,

and you would always get a joke

that you missed the first time.

What do you love

about "The Simpsons"?

Probably its humor.

It's pretty unique.

It just represents everything

about humanity,

I think,

but in a funny aspect.

And you know, America

went through a time

when "The Simpsons"

owned America.

I remember when that

was appointment television,

where if you didn't see

"The Simpsons" on Sunday,

you couldn't have a conversation

on Monday with some people.

Yeah. It was also edgy.

It was edgy at the time.

Yeah.

La-la-la-la-la-la-la!

Ha! Ha!

La-la-la! Ha! ha!

La-la-la-la!

Stop him!

He's expressing

his faith, eh?

The thing is,

is that "The Simpsons"

stereotypes all races.

They stereotype

the alcoholic, the deadbeat dad,

the "F"-up kid,

the over-achieving daughter.

They stereotype Italians,

Chinese, Japanese.

They spare no expense.

The problem is,

is we didn't have

any other representation

in this country.

There was no Aziz,

no Mindy, no Kal,

no that dude

who was on "Lost,"

and that other dude

from "Heroes,"

and that dude that's

in the Apu documentary.

No politicians or reporters,

and no whatever

Deepak Chopra is.

This is all we had.

Apu reflected

how America viewed us --

servile...

devious...

goofy.

And that creates a problem

when the most popular show

on television,

which it was,

is showing

mainstream America

what an Indian is.

Right.

And it's a potbellied dude

who can't speak English,

has zero --

is an idiot, basically.

So, where did this walking

stereotype come from?

I mean,

other than the gates of hell.

I read somewhere

that Apu,

they originally did not

want to make him

and Indian convenience

store owner

because they thought it was

too much of a stereotype.

It's completely

untrue.

Right away they were like,

"Can you do an Indian voice,

and how offensive

can you make it," basically.

Really?

I literally --

I would, immediately began

to talk this way and...

And I was like, "It's not

tremendously accurate.

It's a little...

stereotype."

They're like,

"Meh, it's all right."

So, Hank Azaria,

a brilliant voice-over actor

who does many of

"The Simpsons" characters,

is told to do this stereotypical

voice by producers.

Or was he?

Apu, he was not intended

to be a character.

He was called "clerk."

Mm-hmm.

He had one line,

"35 cents, please."

And I wrote in the script,

"He is not an Indian."

'Cause I said,

"That is a comedy clich."

I see, yeah.

And we get to the table reading,

and Hank Azaria goes,

"35 cents, please."

And it got

this giant laugh,

and, suddenly,

Apu was an Indian.

"35 cents, please."

Man, that is some

brilliant comedy writing.

So, what I do know for sure is

that a white dude created

a stereotypical Indian voice,

and a bunch of white writers

in a room laughed

at said stereotypical

Indian voice.

And this led to the creation

of my childhood bully

and a walking insult

to my parents.

Are you sure

you want a child, Apu?

You know I do.

I mean, there comes a time

in a man's life

when he asks himself,

"Who will float my corpse

down the Ganges?"

So, that's you guys.

Today, you look like

Apu today, somewhat.

No, that's not funny.

Why do I look like Apu today?

The hair, I think.

-Apu hair.

-Apu hair!

I don't have Apu hair.

Hey, Apu.

Apu hair.

When you see that character,

do either of you identify

with that character

in any way?

No.

I don't think so.

Does it bother you at all

that it's a white actor

that does the voice of Apu?

Hank Azaria

is a talented guy.

They paid him, he did it.

And he did it good.

Why do you think you tolerate

this kind of stuff

more than we would?

First of all,

we came here.

We had to succeed,

no matter what.

It doesn't mean that

we are not offended by it.

Why do you feel like

we don't tolerate it?

Times have changed.

You have security,

and you belong here.

You're an American.

So, "Simpsons" creator

Matt Groening makes

this Indian store clerk

a series regular,

and names him

Apu Nahasapeemapetilon.

But where does the name

come from?

Well, his last name,

Nahasapeemapetilon,

comes from the Sanskrit word

for.

And his first name, well,

I'll let Matt explain

why he chose "Apu."

I named Apu

after the trilogy,

the Apu Trilogy by Satyajit Ray.

And I highly recommend

this series of movies --

fantastic landmarks

in world cinema.

Can you tell us

what the Apu Trilogy is?

The Apu Trilogy is the story

of it's hero,

a young boy named Apu,

who we follow over

the course of three films.

You see in the course

of his life both a young man

grow up

and actually deepen,

but also, you see

the modernization of India.

As someone

who's a scholar of Ray,

who knows those films

very well,

how do you feel

about that choice?

His story's the story of

a multidimensional human being

who grows living through pain

and tragedy and beauty.

And to have that name then be

associated with the Apu

of the convenience store,

of course, is such

a huge diminishment.

And even though

Matt Groening

created "The Simpsons,"

it's Hank Azaria

who does the voice

and can literally silence Apu.

I was feeling hopeful I could

get Hank to speak to me,

especially since he had

spoken about this once before

in a Huffington Post article

from 2013,

entitled,

"Is It Time to Retire Apu?"

by Mallika Rao.

When you spoke to Hank Azaria,

was there a defensiveness?

For the first time,

he wants to talk about

how he feels uncomfortable

with the voice.

Did he do Apu

over the phone?

He did briefly.

He-He talked about

how the voice is very musical.

He did the accent.

He mentioned you --

Well, he didn't know

your name,

but he said that there was

an Indian comic

who he'd seen a video of,

who just went off on Apu.

Had he not thought about it

until he saw my bit?

Right. He hadn't, so...

So, for, like, 20 --

At that point, maybe, like,

21, 22 years,

he had not thought

about it?

He hadn't

thought about it

from the perspective

of a real Apu,

and real Indian person.

So Hank has

thought about this.

And if I got to Hank before,

I'm sure I can get to him again.

To understand

my quest to get rid of Apu,

you need to understand

the complicated

and diverse experiences

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