The Problem with Apu Page #6

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out of him,"

the funny part about that

for the audience is

that you're not kicking

the out of nobody.

Yeah.

So, that's the line

you're cr--

Like, "Oh, really?

Is that what you're gonna do?"

But we also relate

to your intense anger

or feeling about it.

But we also are not worried

about Hank Azaria.

You're right. Right.

You know, he works out.

Yeah, right.

He's got a big house.

I'm kicking upward.

Yeah, you're punching upward.

Smithers,

you infernal ninny!

Stick your left hoof

on that flange now!

Now, pump those

scrawny chicken legs,

you stuporous funker!

Can I bust you

on something?

Go ahead.

Do you think Mr. Burns is

one-dimensional?

I think Mr. Burns is

one-dimensional,

but he is a one-dimensional

caricature of a rich maniac,

which there are many

and who have power.

Mm-hmm.

I think an Indian

convenience store owner

who's accented

doesn't have power,

especially

in that situation.

And if I believe

that we should go after

people with more power

as much as we can,

which "The Simpsons"

certainly does brilliantly.

Right.

To the writers,

there's no difference.

Mr. Burns is funny

in these four ways,

Apu is funny

in these four ways.

That's so mechanical,

though.

It's the nature of writing

a television show,

when you have to write 22

half-hour stories a year

for 25 years that

don't repeat themselves.

By the time you got there,

was there a sense of,

like, any kind of regret?

Like, "I wish this character

wasn't built this way"?

I think if "The Simpsons"

were being done today,

I'm not sure if you could

have Apu voiced by Hank.

I mean, do you see that as

a good thing or a bad thing?

Is there a value,

or is it just the way it is?

I see it as a "thing."

How much do you want to tear

at the fabric of the show?

Do you want to pull Apu,

a beloved character,

out of the Kwik-E-Mart,

a beloved setting,

just for the sake

of updating that character

to be less

anachronistic?

How have we been so overlooked

by the comedy writers

I'd grown up idolizing?

It's like they didn't

even think of us.

It influenced, like,

our whole class of comedians.

Yeah.

And some of our favorite writers

came from there --

Dana Gould, Conan,

like, so many.

Yeah.

And to me,

I was like, "Oh."

Like, was that just, like,

a blind spot to these people

that are considered to be

comedic geniuses?

I feel like that still happens

in writers' rooms now.

It's like whoever sits

at the table,

informs the discussion.

So if it's, like,

all white men,

you're gonna have someone

make an off-color joke

and not realize the extent

to which it is inappropriate.

When does the actor

have culpability?

Like, does Hank Azaria

have some responsibility,

or is he just an actor

playing a role

and he was lucky enough

to have it for 26 years?

It's hard for me

to blame the actor.

It lives

in a systemic culture

of how are Southasians

represented.

If we're funny

just because of an accent

or just because --

if that's the only version of us

that is seen

and that's the only version

that's allowed

because the audience will accept

one version of Southasians,

they won't accept something

that's nuanced

or it's just not --

it's too complicated,

you know.

I don't think Hank Azaria

thought about it...

probably that much.

It was just a funny character,

one among many that he did.

I mean,

that's part of comedy, too.

I mean, I think

that the media that is created,

I mean, part of it

is to have a conversation.

And with stand up,

you're having a conversation.

You might not be having

the conversation

directly with the performer,

but the stuff I hear other

performers say I think about.

Like, that's a lot of people

who feel that way.

It's not just him.

I'm not going after him.

I'm going after all the people

that laughed...

Yeah.

and feel the same way.

How do I address that point?

That's why representation's

important.

I mean, this is

a big discussion.

And I hope that Hank Azaria

understands that

and sits down and talks to you,

because I don't think

you're necessarily

going after him.

But I think he's a part

of this conversation.

I've been trying

to get Hank Azaria

to be in

this documentary,

obviously,

because it's about Apu,

and he voices Apu.

Yeah.

How do we get him, Dana?

I don't know.

I would be astounded

if he would voluntarily

want to justify

any of his voices.

I still think he should be

in the documentary, obviously.

But, like...Yeah.

Well, yeah, sure.

But I do think

that I don't want --

It's in your self-interest

to have him in the documentary,

and it's in his self-interest

to not be in it.

It all just seemed so hopeless.

But then I got an e-mail

from Hank saying

he might be willing to talk.

Whoa.

So, it might be happening.

Hank Azaria might

actually talk to me.

This is almost very exciting.

But now what?

What am I gonna tell him?

Just stop doing the voice?

I need some creative solutions

for this mess.

I don't know what the solution

is to tweak it.

I don't know

if you can tweak it.

I also don't want them

to kill Apu,

although it might actually

make a good episode,

which they're in

desperate need of.

I was --

I was thinking about that.

But the idea of,

like, killing

the Indian immigrant

is also upsetting, like...

Well, he can't win with you.

Right.

What if there's an episode

where he just drops the accent?

He was, like --

No, I'm serious --

And it was, like,

all just an elaborate ruse?

Hey, brah.

Come in and chill-ax.

Now, I'm not the only one who's

tried to solve this problem.

"The Simpsons" themselves

attempted to in 2016,

during season 27,

when they introduced Apu's

Indian-American nephew

voiced by Utkarsh Ambudkar.

So, you did the voice

of Apu's nephew,

who was the first Indian-

American character on that show.

How did they approach

you about that?

I got an offer.

I got this

super-cool letter

with "The Simpsons" heading

that said,

"Dear," you know,

"Utkarsh, will you come

and be on the show?"

And at that point I'm just like,

"Sweet sweet sweet, Simpsons...

Oh, man.

I know how this goes.

Do I have to do an accent?"

"No, we don't want you

to do an accent.

We've been getting

a lot of heat," whatever it is.

"We want to present

an Indian-American."

Check it.

I just b*tch-slapped your

Kwik-E-Mart

into the 21st Century!

There's a moment

where I'm, like, bashing Apu.

And I'm like,

"You're a stereotype!

Why do you talk like that?"

And I had an "alt,"

where I was like,

"You sound like a white guy

doing a bad version

of an Indian accent."

I'll say that,

and then you cut

to the real Hank Azaria

in the booth.

That's so good!

Look, and have him look

at the camera.

That's so good!

And then, cut back

to the cartoon.

That, like,

solves the thing.

Did you do the take?

I did.

But, uh...

But they weren't having it.

Was there ever a moment

of second-guessing,

or was there ever

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