The Sorrow and the Pity Page #18

A visit to Sigmaringen Castle

accompanied by a former volunteer

in the Waffen SS Charlemagne Division.

May 1969

Till 1944,

the royal family lived in this castle.

Under orders from Hitler's regime,

the royal family was given 24 hours

to leave the castle.

The new Vichy administration

was given these quarters.

This is where Marshal Ptain

and Prime Minister Pierre Laval

remained until the surrender of Germany.

I came with two friends. We'd just

returned from Yanovitz, near Prague,

where we'd been taking

advanced anti-tank lessons,

and we had a very precise question

we wanted to ask Marshal Ptain,

as we knew he was here,

about whether or not

the final point we had reached

was logical,

and if we should make the jump

and leave for the Eastern front.

What was this final point?

The final point was wearing

a German uniform,

something neither our education

nor, at a certain point,

the taste for something new

we'd experienced in our youth,

had prepared us for.

We arrived here at the castle

and asked to see Marshal Ptain.

There were guards around,

French policemen.

Our request was quickly turned down.

Marshal Ptain refused to see us.

-How about Laval?

-He wouldn't see us either.

How did you feel about that?

It must have been a big letdown

as you thought

that there would be some complicity

between the people

who preached the policies

and you who put them into practice.

It was a complete

and devastating letdown.

It made us want to leave there

as quickly as possible,

and join our friends in Wilflecken,

head for the Eastern Front,

and get it over with.

We no longer had any illusions.

It is hard for me to speak

on behalf of 7,000 young men,

for there were 7,000 young men

from different walks of life

who fought on the Eastern front

in the Charlemagne Division.

They say that only 300 survived.

I believe it. It's very important.

As I told you, the majority of them

weren't prepared in the least

to wear that uniform,

and specially not

the most extreme uniform.

-The Waffen S.S. uniform?

-Yes, that's right.

So the Frenchmen at Vichy,

upon seeing you in these uniforms,

treated you like you were...

Like we were an embarrassment,

an embarrassment which was

going to require explanation in the future.

But as you know,

in the years that followed,

the Vichy people tried to explain

that it was simply part of a policy,

and that it wasn't really serious.

That astounds me.

You know, when 7,000 young men,

many of whom might have become

the leaders of our nation,

are massacred in another country's

uniform. For me, that's serious.

Here you see a portrait

of Princess Stephanie,

the queen of Portugal.

She was the wife of the Portuguese king

Don Pedro the 5th,

and died at a very young age.

In order to understand

many people's involvement in the war,

you have to think back

to 1934 at the earliest.

There was not

a single high school in France

which was not in a state of agitation.

From 1934 onwards,

there were extremely violent

political fights in high schools.

There were editorials in Gringoire,

Candide, Action Franaise,

in Populaire, and Humanit.

People were constantly encouraged

to fight one another.

Furthermore, soldiers felt they were

the guardians of the right wing.

In February 1934,

which was an important date

in the history

of pre-war political fighting in France,

-how old were you?

-I was almost 13 years old.

Politics already concerned you?

They spoke of revolution.

For people like us,

there really wasn't any choice.

We wouldn't choose the Communists,

so we had to choose

the other revolutionary party,

which was fascism.

There is a lot of discussion

on anti-Semitism.

Don't forget that my entire youth

took place in an atmosphere

which was ripe in violent anti-Semitism.

And we were also

touched by the fact that in February 1934,

people were killed.

It was the beginning of a revolution.

France was divided into two.

Did the fear of Communism play

a major role in your political awakening?

There was one event

which happened abroad,

but was of extreme importance.

While one generation grew up

with the Algerian war

and was interested in it,

we were most interested

in the war in Spain.

How could a boy of my age,

raised in the environment

in which I was raised,

be anything other than

a devoted anti-Communist,

when all the papers that I read at the time

were constantly running photos

of nuns who had been gunned down,

of Carmelites who'd been unearthed,

of desecrated tombstones and so forth?

This was...

-This was your background.

-Yes, exactly. Exactly.

As far as fascism was concerned,

how did it strike you,

intellectually speaking?

Did you know what it was all about?

I must admit that I had a vague idea.

For us, it was a way

of rebelling against our families.

The first images we saw of Nuremberg

were like a new religion.

We were astounded. I can honestly say

that it was like a mass to us.

There is a religious element

to every political ideology.

And if you aren't impressed

by the decorum,

especially the youth...

The chairs, covered in leather,

carry the Hohenzollern emblem,

with the motto of the Hohenzollern:

"Nihil sine Deo,"

in English, "Nothing without God."

This room was used by the royal family

as a dining room till 1944.

We are now reaching the corridor.

Here you can see

several magnificent miniatures,

representing the members

of the royal family.

At one point, I was contacted

by some real Resistance fighters.

At that time, they were looking

for people who wanted to fight.

It's true, I have no excuse.

I had several opportunities

to join the active Resistance.

My idea at the time, the idea of my youth,

was that only two ideologies existed

which could change the world.

One which had already changed

the world, Marxism,

and the other,

which was National Socialism.

Does it bother you

if we say that, roughly speaking,

in 1941 you were a young Fascist?

No, it's true.

You were on the side

that wasn't at risk of any persecution.

Were you particularly proud

of being on that side,

seeing how France was at the time?

It's good that you bring up

the problem of persecution.

It was unavoidable, and it is something

I consider very important.

I won't pretend that I didn't know. I knew.

I knew they were arresting Jews.

That's true.

But I can assure you

that I never imagined that it ended in...

-In Auschwitz?

-Never.

You thought it simply meant

they were outcast from society?

I knew that they were sent to camps.

But at that time,

there were many prisoners.

There were 2,000,000

French prisoners of war in Germany.

Between a political prisoner

and a prisoner of war,

for me, I didn't think

there was any difference.

Let's come out and say it.

If France wants to remain

a major European and world player,

if France wants to remain

worthy of Europe,

we must join the fight against Bolshevism.

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