The Unbelievers
I said this in a movie once:
"Everyone knows the same truth,
I am kind of amazed at what
Lawrence and Richard are doing
because they are walking
into some pretty prickly
arenas,
and they have no armor,
other than
their own mental faculties.
are doing out there,
promoting a scientific
world view,
because it is part of
what humanity's all about...
To be curious, to understand
what is the real world
surrounding us.
And this is what I love
about science, is that
it's knowledge,
and knowledge is power,
and it empowers you
and it frees you,
because then you're not stuck,
you're no longer stuck
where you've been or where
somebody else has been stuck.
There are no scientific
authorities. There are
scientific experts.
Richard knows a lot
about zoology; I know
a lot about physics.
But there's no one whose views
are not subject to question.
Science just seeks
for better or worse.
It doesn't say,
"should I find this out?"
It says, "can I?"
And that's
They don't change the facts.
Facts, if you're rational,
should change your beliefs.
Throughout history,
new discoveries
have challenged
existing beliefs.
Religion is no exception.
Religion is just like
any other topic
and should not be
sacrosanct at all.
You should be able
to discuss religion.
Why not?
I think religion
should be open to discussion.
I think everything
should be. I think
when you make things taboo,
even when feel like
you're protecting it,
it's not for the greater good.
a conversation
about a set
of beliefs that lead to actions
which affect all of us.
All this stuff I was
taught about evolution
and big bang theory and all that
is lies straight
from the pit of hell.
This is the trouble
with ethics and morality
and the big questions
and the fact that
religionists think they
own that conversation.
Quite the contrary.
They kill that conversation.
who have courage, you know,
that we haven't
thought about before,
and in these times,
where intolerance
is kind of championed,
I'm pretty impressed
that someone is
taking on the quest.
That's what I get
from these guys:
The permission to
question everything.
Richard, ten years ago,
I asked you the question
in the popular writing
and speaking that
you do, which is,
what's more important
in some sense
if you had a choice,
which is to explain science
or destroy religion?
Oh, I think that
they go together,
because "destroy religion"
makes it sound negative.
Yeah.
To me, it's positive.
Science is wonderful.
Science is beautiful.
And religion
is not wonderful.
It's not beautiful.
It gets in the way.
There are all sorts of
but I mostly
care about truth,
the beauty of truth,
the poetry of reality,
which is science,
and the fact that religion,
as a scientific explanation...
It is a competing
scientific explanation...
It's so dull,
it's so boring,
it's so petty.
It's wrong too.
And it's also
wrong, yes.
Which I think
is a bit more...
more important, yeah.
I think the same as you.
I want people to understand
how the universe really works.
As an aside, ultimately,
is this other incompatibility
between science and religion
that when empirical evidence
tells you something,
you have to accept it...
When you give up that
by saying, "I can believe
this myth and fairy tale,"
then it opens you up
to lots of other things.
So it's not innocuous.
Inevitably, when you have
to deal with the real world.
You inevitably make
bad decisions.
If we can get people
to believe that,
then it's easier...
Or should be easier to convince
people that evolution is true
because the evidence
is so strong.
Once you tell them
the evidence for evolution,
they say,
"oh, right, okay.
So much for God."
Sydney while I'm in canberra,
and he's going to debate
on a television program
called q and a
the archbishop of Sydney,
and I'm here in canberra
debating in a Muslim
debate initiative.
We're both sort of launching out
against the forces of evil
in different places,
and that poetry was
to compelling to resist.
As far as I can see,
this event has been advertised
only in the Muslim community.
Except for the few people
I've told about it,
no one will know about it
except the Muslim community,
so it'll be
an interesting audience.
Oh, look over there.
That's fascinating.
That may be our audience
right there, by the way.
That could be it.
Hi, how ya doin'?
- Nice to see you.
- Morning, Professor.
- How are you?
- Hi.
I'm the, uh...
uthman. Uthman badar.
Oh, okay.
You're the other person
that's going to talk.
That's right.
It's interesting...
see any advertising for it.
It'll be interesting
to see.
We'll see how that goes.
But I have a rule... if there's
less than five people,
we just go for coffee.
Does that sound good?
I'm gonna sit in the back now
and read my Bible,
which is...
I just thought
I'd pick it up
for inspiration.
Christopher always inspires me.
Cardinal George pell is the
most senior
Roman catholic
in Australia,
he's the archbishop of Sydney,
and I know rather
little else about him,
I'm afraid.
And he is sometimes talked about
as a possible candidate
for pope.
I have always refused to debate
religious fundamentalists.
It is my understanding
that a cardinal of
is not a fundamentalist.
If he is, I've made a mistake.
We're very excited to have these
two gentlemen here this evening
for this discussion.
We know them already.
Please let us introduce
them properly
and make them feel very welcome.
Please help me welcome
the author of the God delusion,
the evolutionary biologist
Richard Dawkins.
...the archbishop of Sydney,
please welcome
cardinal George pell.
Five, four, three...
George pell,
do you accept that
humans evolved from apes?
Yeah, probably.
From neanderthals, yes.
From neanderthals?
Probably.
Why from neanderthals?
Who else would you suggest?
Neanderthals were our cousins.
We're not descended from them.
These extant cousins?
Where would I find
a neanderthal today
if they're my cousins?
They're not extant.
They're extinct.
That's my point.
Your point is that
because they're not...
That because they're extant,
they can't be our cousins?
I'm really am not much fussed.
That's very clear.
Ignoring the limitations
of science
also leads to sloppy
and arbitrary science.
A good example is the field
of quantum mechanics.
The evidence of logic
derives from the evidence
of reality.
Is it logical that I can be
in two places at once? No.
But if I am an electron,
I certainly can be.
Because while you refer
to quantum mechanics,
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"The Unbelievers" Scripts.com. STANDS4 LLC, 2024. Web. 21 Nov. 2024. <https://www.scripts.com/script/the_unbelievers_21538>.
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