Let the Fire Burn Page #5

why you did not consider that.

They were using them simply as a ploy...

and using that philosophy,

that feeling that we had

for the sanctity of children...

and everyone else,

to our disadvantage.

I do not want to wake up tomorrow morning

and find myself short one son...

because if this thing

kicks off, you're going

to have bodies strewn

every which way.

You're going to have children killed,

and you're going to have adults killed.

I am very much afraid you're

going to have blood-soaked streets.

Every one of us knew that there

was an extraordinarily high likelihood...

that someone was going to die.

We didn't know whether

it was going to be a policeman.

We didn't know whether

it was going to be a fireman.

We didn't know whether it was

going to be a MOVE member.

The worse dread of all

was that it was going

to be a child or a

neighbor or a bystander.

I don't know if anyone on this panel

has ever had the responsibility...

of saying "go" to a plan that you know

is going to cost human lives.

Until you've done that,

it's very difficult to gauge...

whether the city officials

were right or wrong in what they did.

Did you all have meetings where you would

discuss what to do if the police came?

Mm-mmm. Not us.

Not the children?

How about the adults?

How about the grown-ups?

They were to be upstairs by their self

when they had their meetings.

When they had their meetings?

How often

would they have their meetings?

- A lot of times.

- A lot of times?

Did you ever sit in on-Were you

ever in any of their meetings?

Do you ever know what

went on in those meetings?

Mm-mmm.

What is a confrontation?

Do you know?

Like it was.

But what happens

when you have a confrontation?

When the cops come and stuff.

What did you believe they might have

had by way of firearms in that house?

We were led to believe that

they had automatic firearms.

Shotguns.

I guess just as well

as equipped as we were.

Mm-hmm.

And so based on what you believed they

had, then you went prepared to match?

- To match or better than.

- Or to have superior?

That's correct, sir.

We interrupt regular programming

for this special report.

I'm Dennis Woltering

with Harvey Clarke at 62nd and Vine...

where authorities continue

preparations for an

apparent confrontation with

the radical group, MOVE.

Let me tell you what's happened

so far this morning.

About two hours ago,

3:
30 a.m.,

utility crews moved into the area,

shut off gas and electricity.

SWAT teams have been

converging on the area.

You can see a fire truck behind me with

a deluge gun pointed back that way.

It's aimed, apparently,

at the MOVE house.

It looks like the scene is set.

I got on my stomach,

and with the bullhorn,

I read the message.

And to be quite frank,

I was sweating it out.

What did Commissioner Sambor

say, do you know?

He was telling them to come out.

Did you hear him saying that?

What was the response

of the MOVE organization...

when you read the arrest warrant

that they vacate the premises?

That they would not surrender.

- Can you tell us what else they said?

- That they would kill us all.

And what else did they say?

Uh, they said that, uh,

that all of our wives would be widows.

And what else did they say

about your wives?

They said that our wives would be sleeping

with other men before the end of the day.

- Did they describe what other kind of men?

- Yes, sir.

Would you tell us?

They said that our wives would be sleeping

with black men before the end of the day.

Do you recall what your reaction was

to those statements?

I accepted it, sir,

as some of their rhetoric...

and attempts to incite the police

and myself to precipitous action.

The police went in

about five minutes to 6:00.

Just four minutes ago,

they pumped tear gas in...

which is in the area.

The police began a deluge,

which you can see here.

That water's actually

being pumped in...

about, probably, 50 yards

into the MOVE compound.

As you can see up the street,

Tom, if you just pan up there,

it's a very surreal kind of scene.

Very calm men standing around...

as the cloud of tear gas,

the haze, kind of begins to lift.

Here comes some more tear gas

down Addison Street.

This apparently has expanded...

to include the entire square block.

Perhaps when the cloud clears,

we'll know a little bit more.

What was the plan

for May 13, 1985?

The tactical plan, as I understood it,

was to remove the MOVE people,

all the people,

from the house safely.

That was the objective.

It was to be done by causing

a diversion on the roof,

inserting the insertion teams

on either side of the properties...

and by then inducing

an amount of C.S. gas...

in a sufficient concentration...

to make those people

come out of the house.

The police presence here

is not like it was the last time.

This is being handled

almost entirely by the stakeout unit.

There may have just been a gunshot.

The gunshots are starting right now.

It sounds like automatic fire, Steve.

There's quite a bit of it.

We can't tell, Steve, at this point

exactly where the gunfire is coming from.

Okay. Steve, at this point we're

being forced to leave our position.

- We'll get back to you as soon as we can.

- Let's go.

The police

are now moving Harvey Clarke.

- Who shot first?

- They did.

- How do you know?

- Because I was there.

I understand that.

Did you see muzzle fire?

- I'm just trying to determine how you have that knowledge.

- No, sir, I did not.

But one of the other teams reported

that they were receiving hostile fire.

- Did it sound like automatic fire to you?

- It did. Yes, sir.

And I take it you're familiar

with the sound of automatic weapons fire.

I've heard automatic-

Yes, sir.

Pat, as you can see, we have

reestablished our live signal.

Tremendous bursts of gunfire

have rang out...

in the area

of the 6200 block of Osage Avenue.

Walt Hunter has joined me.

And, Walter, what have you learned?

We have heard

several popping sounds here...

indicating that gunfire

is getting much, much closer.

But we don't know if the

guns you're hearing

are police guns, MOVE

guns or other guns.

About the only thing

we can confirm for you at this point...

is that clearly, based on the nature of the

shoot-out we're seeing here this morning,

MOVE did have some weaponry

either in the house or nearby.

As you know, Commissioner,

there were no automatic weapons

found in the MOVE house.

Do you know whether or not

the automatic weapons fire you heard...

was in fact from police officers?

The firing, as initiated by MOVE,

uh, was...

apparently automatic fire,

and I cannot explain it.

But I do not believe for one minute...

that it was the police

that were firing at that time.

Once the MOVE members started firing,

their status changed radically

in the eyes of the law.

They at that point

became forcible felons,

and there's a whole

different set of laws...

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