Let the Fire Burn Page #6

as to the apprehension

and the amount of force that can be used...

in the apprehension of and the prevention

of the escape of forcible felons.

- Including the children?

- No.

That's as to the adults.

We went downstairs.

Did the adults tell you

to go downstairs?

And where did you go

when you went downstairs?

- The garage.

- Into the garage?

- But where were the men?

- They were upstairs.

Do you know

what they were doing?

Now, we know that the children

wasn't doing any shooting.

- Do you feel that their rights-

- I did not know that the children were not shooting.

What-Would you say that if we had children

in there four, five, six years old...

that they would have been using

any type of weapons?

To my knowledge,

there was only one that young.

We would like to tell you

that the shoot-out is over.

We cannot say that definitively.

We can say there's been at least a 15-

or 20-minute break in the gunfights.

Here comes a police car

racing in right now at this moment.

This is a highway patrol car

racing into the scene.

We don't know

what this signifies.

We'd like to tell you it's over. We really

can't right now. There has been a pause.

There are indications that what has been

a tremendous gunfight is over.

Looking in the trunk of this car

right here.

There's more gunfire right now.

We're gonna crouch down.

As you were about to say, the police are

unloading, as you can see right now.

The police are unloading

Winchester cartridge shells...

from the back

of a highway patrol car.

Do you know how many rounds

were fired that day?

No, sir.

But I will say that, uh-

uh, we ran out.

Uh, we did not anticipate,

uh, the extent

of the confrontation,

uh, and ran out.

Uh, I don't know what time it was,

but it was some time in the morning.

What's happening is,

it's a shoot-out.

Oh, man, and those kids and all that-

The gunfire is as close as it's been since

the shoot-out happened this morning.

Let's-Let's come closer.

Let's come closer and use-and crouch

down behind the Eyewitness News truck.

Oh, my God!

Get down, lady. Get down. Yeah.

Stay in the house.

Stay inside.

I heard shots being fired,

and cops was in the alleyway.

They was like,

"Get in the house. Don't come out."

I was very, very frightened.

You supposed

to nip something in the bud.

If you see something's

coming, you're supposed

to sit down and try

to iron it out...

before something like this

comes to this stage.

It's war. This is war.

I've never seen it,

but I've lived through it today.

This woman-We can't determine...

whether she is a relative of one

of the MOVE members or not.

It appeared that things

had gotten calm.

And then as you heard, about a minute and

a half ago, another burst of gunfire.

This woman is now being taken

into police custody.

You're watching it live.

They are restraining her.

She is hysterical and is clearly upset

about what's going on in there.

Just trying to get her out of the danger

area where we are on the fringes right now.

Did you have a concern...

that the people

inside of that house...

might be in physical danger

or that their lives might be in danger?

Concern?

We knew it.

- Miss-

- We-Excuse me.

We had-

You had 200 boot-kicking,

Gestapo-oriented cops

out there that day.

You had, that day, a police officer

by the name of Mulvihill...

who was in the 1978, uh, tragedy...

who was, in fact, one of the

officers who stomped and kicked...

and beat and bludgeoned...

and shot and helmeted

and kicked some more...

my brother, Delbert Africa.

So as I understand

your testimony,

you were concerned

that there may be physical harm...

to the people inside that house,

is that correct?

Would you turn up

your hearing aid, please?

I can hear you fine, Mrs. James.

- My question is-

- Well, then if you can hear me fine,

if you don't have a hearing aid,

I suggest you get one.

- Well, because-

- Excuse me!

Yes, ma'am.

To ask me...

"were we concerned"

is complete insanity.

By virtue of the fact that MOVE

had construction on the roof...

that was commonly

referred to as the bunker,

that gave them complete command

of the Osage Avenue,

access over the roofs...

they were in an enviable tactical position.

The water cannon used

during the MOVE standoff today...

shoots an estimated

1,000 gallons of water a minute.

Sources say the purpose

of the water is threefold.

First, to disorient

the people inside the house.

Secondly, the water increases humidity,

which makes tear gas more effective.

Thirdly, the powerful water pressure

could cause the house to collapse.

If that plan relied solely on the ability

of our equipment to knock the bunker off,

they knew very clearly up front

that we could not guarantee that, sir.

Chris, I saw Police Commissioner

Gregore Sambor about 45 minutes ago,

and he described his men

as, quote, "taking a break now."

They're obviously somewhat

startled by the way that

MOVE'S building at 62 and

Osage was fortified...

and able to take the water barrage and the

bullets that flew in there this morning.

Thousands of rounds spun off.

Larry, for the first time,

it's been quiet for several hours here.

The police helicopter did

go back up, and I guess

they wanted to take a look

at the top of the bunker.

We had reports-What you

see in front there,

the yellow tarp is the front

of that building,

and we were told

that that bunker was destroyed.

But it appears that it's still there.

Okay, Harvey.

They stopped the snorkel gun now.

- There's no water on that roof.

- For some time, the water has been turned off.

At City Hall this afternoon,

Mayor Goode appeared publicly for the

first time since the siege began.

Goode said he's committed

to removing MOVE from the structure.

We intend to evict from the house.

We intend to evacuate from the house, and

we intend to seize control of the house.

- How will you do that?

- We will do it by any means necessary.

Something is starting to happen.

There is a big-

The fire engine has fired up again.

Its engine is on

for the first time all afternoon.

We just saw some police officers behind

us have their hands over their ears.

We don't know why.

We can't hear anything at this point.

I must say that this

tiny little flurry of activity...

is really the first bit of activity

that there's been here all afternoon.

It's been very quiet.

Police say that they have a plan.

They say it will be implemented shortly.

We will tell you what

it is when it happens.

Reporting live from 62nd and Delancey, this

is Chris Wagner, Channel 6 Action News.

This device that was used-

You're calling it a device.

I'm calling it a bomb.

But did it ever occur to you...

that this might have

been a dangerous device

to use in a residential

neighborhood?

Yes, ma'am.

- It did occur to you?

- Yes, ma'am.

By not vetoing it,

did you approve the plan

to use an explosive on the roof?

I think that I was fully aware

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