My Dinner with Andre Page #10

he was Scotland's greatest mathematician...

...and he was one of the century's

great mathematicians.

And he prided himself on the fact

that he had no fantasy life, no dream life...

...nothing to stand be...

no imaginary life...

...nothing to stand between him

and the direct perception of mathematics.

And one day when he was in his mid-50s,

he was walking in the gardens of Edinburgh...

...and he saw a faun.

The faun was very surprised because fauns

have always been able to see people...

...but you know,

very few people ever see them.

You know, uh,

those little imaginary creatures.

- Not a deer.

- Oh.

- You call them fauns, don't you?

- I thought a fawn was a baby deer.

Yeah, well, there's a deer that's called a fawn,

but these are like those little imagi...

- Oh! The kind that Debussy...

- Yes. Right.

Well, so he got to know the faun,

and he got to know other fauns...

...and a series of conversations began...

...and more and more fauns would

come out every afternoon to meet him.

And he'd have talks with the fauns.

Then one day, after a while, when, you know,

they'd really gotten to know him...

...they asked him

if he would like to meet Pan...

...because Pan would like to meet him.

And of course,

Pan was afraid of terrifying him...

...because he knew

of the Christian misconception...

...which portrayed Pan as an evil creature,

which he's not.

But Roc said he would love to meet Pan,

and so they met...

...and Pan indirectly sent him

on his way on a journey...

...in which he met the other people

who began Findhorn.

But Roc used to practice

certain exercises...

...like, uh, for instance,

if he were right-handed...

...all today he would do everything

with his left hand.

All day... Eating, writing,

everything... Opening doors...

...in order to break the habits of living.

Because the great danger,

he felt, for him...

...was to fall into a trance,

out of habit.

He had a whole series of very simple

exercises that he had invented...

...just to keep

seeing, feeling, remembering.

Because you have to learn now.

It didn't used to be necessary,

but today you have to learn something...

...like, uh, are you really hungry...

...or are you just stuffing your face...

Because that's what you do,

out of habit?

I mean, you can afford to do it,

so you do it...

...whether you're hungry or not.

You know, if you go to

the Buddhist Meditation Center...

...they make you taste

each bite of your food...

...so it takes two hours...

it's horrible... To eat your lunch.

But you're conscious

of the taste of your food.

If you're just eating out of habit,

then you don't taste the food...

...and you're not conscious of the reality

of what's happening to you.

You enter the dream world again.

Now, do you think maybe

we live in this dream world...

...because we do so many things every day

that affect us in ways...

...that somehow

we're just not aware of?

I mean, you know, I was thinking,

um, last Christmas...

Debby and I were given

an electric blanket.

I can tell you that it is just

such a marvelous advance...

...over our old way of life, and it is just great.

But, uh, it is quite different

from not having an electric blanket...

...and I sometimes sort of wonder,

well, what is it doing to me?

I mean, I sort of feel, uh,

I'm not sleeping quite in the same way.

No, you wouldn't be.

I mean, uh, and my dreams

are sort of different...

...and I feel a little bit different

when I get up in the morning.

I wouldn't put an electric blanket on

for anything.

First, I'd be worried I might get electrocuted.

No, I don't trust technology.

But I mean, the main thing, Wally,

is that I think that that kind of comfort...

...just separates you from reality

in a very direct way.

- You mean...

- I mean, if you don't have that electric blanket...

...and your apartment is cold

and you need to put on another blanket...

...or go into the closet and pile up coats

on top of the blankets you have...

...well, then you know it's cold.

And that sets up a link of things.

You have compassion for the per...

Well, is the person next to you cold?

Are there other people in the world

who are cold?

What a cold night!

I like the cold.

My God, I never realized.

I don't want a blanket. It's fun being cold.

I can snuggle up against you even more

because it's cold.

All sorts of things occur to you.

Turn on that electric blanket,

and it's like taking a tranquilizer...

...or it's like being lobotomized

by watching television.

I think you enter

the dream world again.

I mean, what does it do to us, Wally,

living in an environment...

...where something as massive

as the seasons, or winter, or cold...

...don't in any way affect us?

I mean, we're animals, after all.

I mean, what does that mean?

I think that means that instead

of living under the sun...

...and the moon and the sky

and the stars...

...we're living in a fantasy world

of our own making.

Yeah, but I mean, I would never

give up my electric blanket, Andr.

I mean, because New York

is cold in the winter.

I mean, our apartment is cold.

It's a difficult environment.

I mean, our lives

are tough enough as it is.

I'm not looking for ways to get rid of

the few things that provide relief and comfort.

I mean, on the contrary,

I'm looking for more comfort...

...because, uh, the world is very abrasive.

I mean, uh,

I'm trying to protect myself...

...because, really, there are these abrasive

beatings to be avoided everywhere you look.

But, Wally, don't you... Don't you see

that comfort can be dangerous?

I mean, you like to be comfortable,

and I like to be comfortable too...

...but comfort can lull you

into a dangerous tranquillity.

I mean, my mother knew

a woman, Lady Hatfield...

...who was one of the richest women

in the world...

...and she died of starvation

because all she would eat was chicken.

I mean, she just liked chicken, Wally,

and that was all she would eat.

And actually her body was starving,

but she didn't know it...

'cause she was quite happy eating her chicken,

and so she finally died.

See, I honestly believe

that we're all like Lady Hatfield now.

We're having a lovely, comfortable time

with our electric blankets and our chicken...

...and meanwhile we're starving because

we're so cut off from contact with reality...

...that we're not getting any real sustenance,

'cause we don't see the world.

We don't see ourselves.

We don't see how our actions

affect other people.

Have you read Martin Buber's book

On Hasidism?

- No.

- Well, here's a view of life.

I mean, he talks about the belief

of the HasidicJews...

...that there are spirits chained

in everything.

There are spirits chained in you.

There are spirits chained in me.

Well, there are spirits chained

in this table.

And that prayer is the action of liberating

these enchained embryo-like spirits...

...and that every action of ours in life...

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