My Dinner with Andre Page #16

I've acted the role of the friend.

I've acted the role of the writer,

or director, or what have you.

I've lived in the same room with this person,

but I haven't really seen them.

I haven't really heard them.

I haven't really been with them.

Yeah, I know some people

are just sometimes...

...uh, existing just side by side.

I mean, uh, the other person's, uh, face

could just turn into a great wolf's face...

...and, uh, it just wouldn't be noticed.

And it wouldn't be noticed, no.

It wouldn't be noticed.

I mean, when I was in Israel

a little while ago...

I mean, I have this picture of Chiquita

that was taken when she...

I always carry it with me. It was taken

when she was about 26 or something.

And it's in summer,

and she's stretched out on a terrace...

...in this sort of old-fashioned long skirt

that's kind of pulled up.

And she's slim and sensual

and beautiful.

And I've always looked at that picture

and just thought about just how sexy she looks.

And then last year in Israel,

I looked at the picture...

...and I realized that that face in the picture

was the saddest face in the world.

That girl at that time was just lost...

...so sad and so alone.

I've been carrying this picture for years

and not ever really seeing what it is, you know.

I just never really

looked at the picture.

And then, at a certain point, I realized I'd

just gone for a good 18 years unable to feel...

...except in the most extreme situations.

I mean, to some extent, I still had

the ability to live in my work.

That was why I was such a work junkie.

That was why I felt that every play that I did

was a matter of my life or my death.

But in my real life, I was dead.

I was a robot.

I mean, I didn't even allow myself

to get angry or annoyed.

I mean, you know, today

Chiquita, Nicolas, Marina...

All day long, as people do, they do things that

annoy me and they say things that annoy me.

And today I get annoyed.

And they say, " Why are you annoyed?"

And I say, " Because you're annoying,"

you know.

And when I allowed myself

to consider the possibility...

...of not spending

the rest of my life with Chiquita...

I realized that what I wanted most in life

was to always be with her.

But at that time, I hadn't learned what

it would be like to let yourself react...

...to another human being.

And if you can't react

to another person...

...then there's no possibility

of action or interaction.

And if there isn't, I don't really know

what the word " love" means...

...except duty, obligation,

sentimentality, fear.

I mean...

I don't know about you, Wally, but I...

I just had to put myself into a kind of training

program to learn how to be a human being.

I mean, how did I feel about anything?

I didn't know.

What kind of things did I like? What kind of

people did I really want to be with? You know?

And the only way

that I could think of to find out...

...was to just cut out all the noise

and stop performing all the time...

...and just listen to what was inside me.

See, I think a time comes

when you need to do that.

Now, maybe in order to do it,

you have to go to the Sahara...

...and maybe you can do it at home.

But you need to cut out the noise.

Yeah. Of course, personally,

I- I just, uh...

I usually don't, uh...

like those quiet moments, you know.

I really don't.

I mean, uh, I don't know if

it's that, uh, Freudian thing or what...

But, uh, you know, the fear

of unconscious impulses...

...or my own aggression

or whatever, but, uh...

...if things get too quiet, and I find myself

just, uh, sitting there...

...you know,

as we were saying before...

I mean, whether I'm by myself,

or-or I'm-I'm with someone else...

I just, uh...

I just have this feeling of...

...uh, my God,

I'm going to be revealed.

In other words, I'm adequate

to do any sort of a task, um...

...but I'm not adequate, uh,

just to... To be a human being.

I mean, in other words, I'm not, uh...

If I'm just, uh, trapped there

and I'm not allowed to do things...

...but all I can do is just,

um, be there...

...well, I'll just fail.

I mean, in other words, uh...

I can pass any other sort of a test...

...and, you know, I can even get an " A"

if I put in the required effort...

...but I just don't, uh...

I just don't have a clue

how to pass this test.

I mean... I mean, of course,

I realize this isn't a test...

...but, um, I see it as a test...

...and I feel I'm going to fail it.

I mean, it's... it's very scary.

I just feel, uh,just totally at sea.

I mean...

Well, you know,

I could imagine a life, Wally...

...in which each day would become

an incredible, monumental, creative task...

...and we're not necessarily up to it.

I mean, if you felt like walking out

on the person you live with, you'd walk out.

Then if you felt like it,

you'd come back.

But meanwhile, the other person

would have reacted to your walking out.

It would be a life of such feeling.

I mean, what was amazing

in the workshops I led...

...was how quickly people seemed

to fall into enthusiasm...

...celebration,joy, wonder,

abandon, wildness, tenderness.

Could we stand to live like that?

Yeah, I think it's that moment of contact

with another person.

I mean, that's what scares us.

I mean, that moment of being

face to face with another person.

I mean, now...

You wouldn't think it would be so frightening.

It's strange that we find it so frightening.

Well, it isn't that strange.

I mean, first of all, there are some

pretty good reasons for being frightened.

I mean, you know, the human being

is a complex and dangerous creature.

I mean, really,

if you start living each moment?

Christ, that's quite a challenge.

I mean, if you really reach out and you're

really in touch with the other person...

...well, that really is something

to strive for, I think, I really do.

Yeah, it's just so pathetic

if one doesn't do that.

Of course there's a problem, because the closer

you come, I think, to another human being...

...the more completely mysterious...

and unreachable...

...that person becomes.

I mean, you know, you have to reach out,

you have to go back and forth with them...

...and you have to relate, and yet you're

relating to a ghost or something.

I don't know,

because we're ghosts.

We're phantoms.

Who are we?

And that's to face, to confront the fact

that you're completely alone.

And to accept that you're alone

is to accept death.

You mean, because somehow when you

are alone, you're alone with death.

I mean, nothing's obstructing your view of it,

or something like that.

Right.

You know, if I understood it correctly,

I think, uh, Heidegger said...

...that, uh, if you were to experience

your own being to the full...

...you'd be experiencing the decay

of that being toward death...

...as a part of your experience.

You know, in the sexual act there's

that moment of complete forgetting...

...which is so incredible.

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