National Gallery Page #11

of Leonardo changed now,

How has our understanding

of Leonardo changed now,

having got to the end of this exhibition?

Well, there are in fact very few paintings

by Leonardo extant,

that have come down to us.

And so the study,

the intense study of one of them,

the National Gallery's

Virgin of the Rocks,

provided the most complete information

about Leonardo's painting technique.

Provided the most complete information

about Leonardo's painting technique.

We know quite a lot

about the way he drew on paper,

but, before this exhibition, and

before these studies were undertaken,

quite little was known about the actual way

in which Leonardo painted.

And now, we know a great deal more.

And what is it that we know'?

- Well, that's...

- Some of it.

Well, we know every detail of this picture.

Well, we know every detail of this picture.

It's one of the most intensively studied

pictures in the National Gallery collection.

So we know how Leonardo

prepared his panel,

what kind of ground he used.

We know that there were two phases

of drawing on this picture.

In fact, it went through a radical

transformation from an earlier design

In fact, it went through a radical

transformation from an earlier design

to the design that you now see

expressed in paint on the surface.

And what that means, in fact,

because of that transformation of design,

it means this picture's actually very

complicated in its manner of painting.

So we've been able to analyze what we'd

call the layer structure of the picture,

all the different layers of paint

that Leonardo applied

all the different layers of paint

that Leonardo applied

in working toward the first composition,

and then, his second,

finished, composition.

And we also know, in doing that,

a great deal about the materials.

For example, the pigments he used,

the binding media he used, and so on.

So we can provide

a very complete description

of how this work of an was created.

Of how this work of an was created.

Right, that's perfect.

I'm gonna work it down from there, OK?

All right.

What did we not know before?

When you plan the exhibitions,

you think about the different works

that you want to bring together,

you go and look at them, of course,

you go and look at them, of course,

and you're very familiar

with every individual work,

but you never actually see them together,

and that is the magic of any exhibition,

if ii works,

that there is a magic

that all of a sudden happens,

when works start talking to each other.

Sometimes, it doesn't happen, and then

you know that you've failed as a curator.

But when you see that it does happen,

But when you see that it does happen,

there are relationships that, all of a sudden,

start to become more evident,

there are new themes that you discover,

even during the exhibition.

You spend so much time preparing

for an exhibition, writing a catalogue,

thinking about

each individual work in detail,

but it is only when you see them

together in the same room

but it is only when you see them

together in the same room

that things start to become apparent.

So for us, over the last three months, living

with these works together in one space,

we have learned a great deal about how

Leonardo really developed as a painter,

how his students were responding

to him in Milan,

how others did not really respond to him

and just continued

to do what they were doing before,

and just continued

to do what they were doing before,

how he was working with his workshop,

how he collaborated with his students.

There are still very many open questions.

And I think we have also learned

a great deal

about the two versions of

The Virgin of the Rocks.

And still, it is a bit of a puzzle.

An historians have thought about it for,

I believe, over a hundred years

and they've tried to work out

the chronology

and the relationship

between these two paintings,

and the relationship

between these two paintings,

a commission

that is very well documented,

but yet, we don't quite know

why there are two pictures

and who painted them and when.

Originally, it was only men

who were allowed to model.

Early Renaissance artists

were drawing from men only,

and then having to sort of adapt those

drawings for the women in their paintings.

It was definitely a male profession,

because women would be seen as...

Prostitutes.

Ya. It wasn't the sort of thing

women could be seen to be doing.

Ya. It wasn't the sort of thing

women could be seen to be doing.

But it is always a decision,

when you're making a drawing,

you have to go for it,

because if you skirt around it,

- you get a very strange figure.

- It's there.

It's there. It's just part of everything else.

But you're right, you don't see... in the

gallery, you can't think of any examples.

- Yeah.

- I think it's a very...

- healthy thing to have life drawing.

- Mm.

- Healthy thing to have life drawing.

- Mm.

- Yeah, it's liberating, isn't it?

- I'm 51, it's the first time I've done it.

- If I did it when I was younger...

- Yeah.

- ...It might have changed my outlook.

- It just reminds you that...

- It's a very free experience.

- Exactly.

- To see a body as it is.

- Stripped of everything.

- And it's the safe environment as well.

- Yeah.

- It's a sort of encoded environment.

- No one starts giggling.

Yeah. And that it's just celebrating how...

- just how beautiful it is.

- How we are.

- Just how beautiful it is.

- How we are.

How beautiful we are, yeah.

It's a really good thing to just focus on.

And then it, as you say, it changes your...

Oh, it's blowing up!

Oh, it's blowing up!

Go... No, stay there!

Put the light...

put the lights carefully, yeah?

Why don't you f*** off home and

leave f***ing London alone, yeah?

You f***ing idiots. Yeah?

You f***ing idiots. Yeah?

I suggest

you keep your mouth closed.

It's this question of

what's the water doing?

If you could just nail

what the role of the water is.

We're saying here how he's doing

the thing that we've already talked about.

And that'll be about endings and...

- Erm...

- OK, just help me with one thing...

- Erm...

- OK, just help me with one thing...

- The passing and everything...

- Right, help me with one thing.

- Erm... Cuyp... let's say...

- Yeah. Yeah.

- ...has cows, tree, grass, light.

- Yeah.

If Cuyp's work...

Is Cuyp's work a... a metaphor?

If Cuyp's work...

Is Cuyp's work a... a metaphor?

Or just a cute picture of a cow

and grass?

- No.

- OK. What...

- Nor's this. We're just saying it is.

- Right.

What I'm getting at is, basically,

if that weren't water...

- Mm.

- If that was afield...

How is the water metaphorical,

you're saying?

Yeah, how does it help him

generate metaphor?

- OK...

- Do you see what I mean?

Yeah, but let me do it, then.

I can see what you mean,

I'm now gonna do it.

I can see what you mean,

I'm now gonna do it.

- Are these your glasses? No.

Rate this script:0.0 / 0 votes