Shoah Page #13

because every problem was unprecedented:

not just how to kill the Jews,

but what to do with their property thereafter,

and, not only that,

but how to deal with the problem

of not letting the world know what had happened.

All of these multitudes of problems were new.

[Children Shouting, Distant]

[Van Door Opens]

[Van Door Closes]

FRANZ SCHALLING:

[ Lanzmann, In German]

First, explain to me...

how you came to Kulmhof, to Chelmno.

You were at Lodz, right?

- [ Schalling, In German] In Lodz, yes.

- Litzmannstadt?

[ Saba/ling j

In L iizmannstadt'. J a .

We were on permanent guard duty.

Protecting military objectives: mills,

the roads,

when Hitler went to East Prussia.

It was dreary, and we were told,

We're looking for men who want

to break out of this routine.

So we volunteered.

We were issued winter uniforms,

overcoats, fur hats, fur-lined boots,

and 2 or 3 days later

we were told, We're off!

We were put aboard 2 or 3 trucks...

I don't know...

They had benches,

and we rode and rode.

Finally we arrived.

The place was crawling

with SS men and police.

Our first question was, What goes on here?

- [ Lanzmann] Ja.

[ Schalling ]

They said, You?! find out!

- You?! find out?

- You'll find out.

- [ Lanzmann ] Ja.

- Nicht?

- You weren't in the SS, you were...

- Police.

- Which police?

- Security guards.

We were ordered

to report to the Deutsche Haus,

the only big stone building

in the village.

Ja.

We were taken into it.

An SS man immediately told us,

This is a top secret mission!

- Secret?

- A top secret mission.

- Ja.

- Sign this!

We each had to sign.

There was a form ready for each of us.

What did it say?

It was a pledge of secrecy.

We never even got to read it through.

You had to take an oath?

- No, just sign...

- Ja.

Promising to shut up

about whatever we'd see.

- Shut up?

- Not say a word.

Ja.

After we'd signed, we were told,

Final solution of the Jewish question.

We didn't understand what that meant.

So someone said...

He told us what was going

to happen there.

Someone said, the final solution

of the Jewish question.

You'd be assigned to the final solution?

Yes, but what did that mean?

We'd never heard that before.

So it was explained to us.

Just when was this?

Let's see... when was it...?

In the winter of 1941-42.

Then we were assigned to our stations.

Our guard post was

at the side of the road.

A sentry box in front of the castle.

[ Lanzmann ]

So you were in the castle detail?

[ Schalling ]

That's right.

Can you describe what you saw?

We could see.

We were at the gatehouse.

Ja?

When the Jews arrived,

the way they looked:

half-frozen, starved, dirty,

already half-dead.

Old people, children.

Think of it! The long trip here

standing in a truck, packed in!

Who knows if they knew

what was in store!

They didn't trust anyone,

that's for sure.

After months in the ghetto,

you can imagine!

Ja?

I heard an SS man shout at them,

You're going to be deloused

and have a bath.

You're going to work here.

The Jews consented.

They said,

Yes, that's what we want to do.

Was the castle big?

Pretty big, with huge front steps.

The SS man stood at the top of the steps.

Then what happened?

They were hustled into

2 or 3 big rooms on the first floor.

They had to undress, give up everything:

rings, gold, everything.

Ja.

How long did the Jews stay there?

- I ong enough to undress.

- J a.

Then, stark naked,

they had to run down more steps

to an underground corridor

that led back up to the ramp,

where the gas van awaited them.

Did the Jews enter the van willingly?

No, they were beaten.

Blows fell everywhere,

and the Jews understood.

They screamed.

It was frightful!

Frightful!

I know, because

we went down to the cellar

when they were all in the van.

We opened the cells of the work detail,

the Jewish workers

who collected the things thrown out

of the 1st-floor window into there.

[ Lanzmann ]

Describe the gas vans.

[ Schalling ]

Like moving vans.

Very big?

They stretched, say,

from here to the window.

Just big trucks,

like moving vans, with 2 rear doors.

What system was used?

How did they kill them?

- With exhaust fumes.

- Exhaust fumes?

It went like this:

A Pole yelled, Gas!

Then the driver got under the van

to hook up the pipe

that fed the gas into the van.

- Yes, but how?

- From the motor.

Yes, but through what?

A pipe... a tube.

He fiddled around under the truck.

I'm not sure how.

It was just exhaust gas?

That's all.

[ Lanzmann ]

Ja.

Who were the drivers?

- SS men.

- [ Repeats Phrase]

All those men were SS.

Were there many of these drivers?

I don't know.

Were there 2, 3, 5, 10?

Not that many.

2 or 3, that's all.

I think there were 2 vans,

one big, one smaller.

Ja?

Did the driver sit

in the cabin of the van?

- Mrs. Uwe?

- [Woman ] No.

He climbed into the cabin

after the doors were closed

and started the motor.

Did he race the motor?

I don't know.

Could you hear the sound of the motor?

Yes, from the gate

we could hear it turn over.

Was it a loud noise?

The noise of a truck engine.

Ja.

The van was stationary

while the motor ran?

That's right.

Ja.

Then it started moving.

We opened the gate,

and it headed for the woods.

Were the people already dead?

I don't know.

It was quiet. No more screams.

[ Lanzmann ]

No screams.

You couldn't hear anything

as they drove by.

[ Podchlebnik Speaking Yiddish]

[ Interpreter #2, In French]

He recalls:
It was 1941,

2 days before the new year.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

They were routed out at night...

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

and in the morning they reached Chelmno.

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

- There was a castle there.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

When he entered the castle courtyard...

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

he knew something awful was going on.

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

- He already understood.

THE SITE OF THE CASTLE

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

They saw clothes and shoes...

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

- scattered in the courtyard.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

Yet they were alone there.

He knew his parents

had been through there...

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

- and there wasn't a Jew left.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

They were taken down into a cellar.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

On a wall was written,

No one leaves here alive.

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

- Graffiti in Yiddish.

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

- There were lots of names.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

He thinks it was the Jews

from villages around Chelmno

who had come before him,

who had written their names.

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

- A few days after New Year's...

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

they heard people arrive

in a truck one morning.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

The people were taken

out of the truck...

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

- and up to the first floor of the castle.

- [ Podchlebnik Continues]

The Germans lied,

saying they were to be deloused.

[ Podchlebnik Continues]

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