Shoah Page #4

- [ Interpreter #1, In French ] He was born here...

- [Man Continues]

- in 1923...

- [ Man Continues]

- and has been here even since.

[ Lanzmann, In French]

He lived at this very spot?

- Tak. Oui.

- [ Interpreter #1 ] R/jght here.

[ Lanzmann] Then he had

a front-row seat for what happened.

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

- [ Man Replies]

- Naturally.

[ Man Continues]

You could go up close

or watch from a distance.

CZESLAW BOROWI:

They had land

on the far side of the station.

To work it, he had to cross the track,

so he could see everything.

[ Lanzmann ] Does he remember

the first convoy of Jews from Warsaw

on July 22, 1942?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

- [ Borowi Replies ]

- Yes.

[ Borowi Continues ]

He recalls the first convoy very well...

[ Borowi Continues ]

and when all those Jews

were brought here...

[ Borowi Continues ]

people wondered,

What's to be done with them?

[ Borowi Continues ]

Clearly, they'd be killed,

but no one yet knew how.

When people began

to understand what was happening,

they were appalled,

and they commented privately

that since the world began,

no one had ever murdered

so many people that way.

[ Lanzmann ]

While all this was happening before their eyes,

normal life went on?

- They worked their fields?

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

[ Borowi Replies ]

Certainly they worked,

but not as willingly as usual.

They had to work,

but when they saw all this,

they thought,

What if our house is surrounded

and we're arrested?

[ Lanzmann ]

Were they afraid for the Jews, too?

Well, he says it's this way:

If I cut my finger, it doesn't hurt him.

They saw what happened to the Jews:

The convoy came in

and then went to the camp,

and the people vanished.

I Polish 1

[ Interpreter #1 ]

He had a field less than 100 yards from the camp.

[ Lanzmann Repeats Phrase]

[ Interpreter #1 ] He also worked

during the German occupation.

- [ Lanzmann ] He worked his field?

- [ Interpreter #1 ]Yes.

He saw how they were asphyxiated,

he heard them scream, he saw that.

There's a small hill:

He could see quite a bit.

- [ Polish Men All Laughing ]

- [ Lanzmann ] What did he say?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

They couldn't stop and watch.

It was forbidden.

The Ukrainians shot at them.

[ Lanzmann ] But they could work a field

100 yards from the camp?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

They could.

- So occasionally he could steal a glance...

- [ Lanzmann] Oui.

If the Ukrainians weren't looking.

- [ Lanzmann ] He worked with his eyes lowered?

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

Yes.

I Polish 1

He worked by the barbed wire

and heard awful screams.

- [ Lanzmann ] His field was there?

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

Yes, right up close.

It wasn't forbidden to work there.

- [ Lanzmann ] So he worked, he farmed there?

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

Yes.

Where the camp is now

was partly his field.

[ Lanzmann Repeats Phrase]

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

It was off limits,

but they heard everything.

[ Lanzmann ] It didn't bother him to work

so near those screams?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

At first it was unbearable.

Then you got used to it.

- [ Lanzmann ] You get used to anything?

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

Yes.

Now he thinks... it's impossible.

Yet it was true.

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

So he saw the convoys arriving.

There were 60 to 80 cars

in each convoy,

and there were two locomotives

that took the convoys into the camp,

taking 20 cars at a time.

And the cars came back empty?

[Speaking Polish]

- Yes.

- Does he remember...?

Here's how it happened:

The locomotive picked up 20 cars

and took them to the camp.

That took maybe an hour,

and the empty cars came back here.

Then the next 20 cars were taken,

and meanwhile, the people

in the first 20 were already dead.

[ Man Speaking Polish]

[ Interpreter #1 ]

They waited, they wept...

- [ Man Continues]

- they asked for water, they died.

[ Man Continues]

Sometimes they were naked

in the cars, up to 170 people.

[ Man #2 Speaking Polish]

This is where they gave

the Jews water, he says.

[ Lanzmann ]

Where was that?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

- [ Polish ]

- Here.

When the convoys arrived,

they gave water to the Jews.

- [ Lanzmann ] Who gave the Jews water?

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

We did, the Poles.

There was a tiny well,

we took a bottle and...

- [ Lanzmann] Wasn't it dangerous to give them

water? - [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

Very dangerous.

You could be killed

for giving a glass of water.

But we gave them water anyway.

[ Lanzmann ]

Is it very cold here in winter?

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

- [ Man Replies In Polish]

- It depends.

- [ Man Continues]

It can get to minus 15, minus 20.

[ Lanzmann ] Which was harder on the Jews,

summer or winter?

- Waiting here, I mean.

- [ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

[ Man Replies ]

He thinks winter,

because they were very cold.

[ Man Continues]

They were so packed in the cars,

maybe they weren't cold.

- [ Man Continues]

- In summer they stifled: It was very hot.

The Jews were very thirsty.

They tried to get out.

[ Lanzmann ] Were there corpses

in the cars on arrival?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

Obviously.

Oui.

They were so packed in

that even those still alive

sat on corpses for lack of space.

[ Lanzmann ] Didn't people here

who went by the trains

look through the cracks in the cars?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

Yes, they could look in sometimes

as they went by.

When they were allowed,

they gave them water, too.

[ Lanzmann] Oui.

How did the Jews try to get out?

The doors weren't opened.

How'd they get out?

[ Interpreter #1 Speaking Polish]

- Through the windows.

- [ Lanzmann Repeats Phrase]

- They removed the barbed wire...

- [ Repeats Phrase]

- Oui.

- Oui?

- and came out of the windows.

- [ Repeats Phrase]

They jumped, of course.

Sometimes they just deliberately

sat down on the ground,

and the guards came

and shot them in the head.

I Polish 1

They jumped from the cars...

What a sight!

Jumping from the windows.

There was a mother and child.

- [ Lanzmann ] Jewish?

- Yes.

She tried to run away,

and they shot her in the heart.

- Shot who... the mother?

- Yes, the mother.

This gentleman has lived here

a long time, he can't forget.

He says that now he can't understand

how a man can do that

to another human being.

It's inconceivable,

beyond understanding.

Once when the Jews asked for water,

a Ukrainian went by

and forbade giving any.

The Jewish woman

that had asked for water...

threw her pot at his head.

- Oui.

- Alors...

The Ukrainian moved back,

maybe ten yards,

and opened fire on the car.

Blood and brains

were all over the place.

[ Borowi Speaking Polish]

[ Interpreter #1 ]

Lots of people opened the doors...

[ Borowi Continues ]

or escaped through the windows.

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