Yes, Prime Minister: Re-elected Page #3

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a grilling over the estimates

in the Public Accounts Committee.

I wouldn't say that.

Well, you came up with all the

questions I hoped nobody would ask.

Well, opposition's about asking

awkward questions.

And government is about not

answering them.

Well, you answered all mine anyway.

I'm glad you thought so, Minister.

I remember, back in 1980,

when it was first on,

I was 12 at the time, and I remember

my dad just saying to me,

"Now then, now then, Jonathan, watch

this, you might learn something."

It was an outstanding example

of what a sitcom should be about.

This serious side to it,

the political side to it.

And it didn't dumb down ever.

Yes, Minister had something

important to say

about the process of government.

And being able to combine

something interesting

and important with making me

roll in my chair with laughter,

seemed to me

to be a great combination.

You see, Bernard, it is

our duty to assist the Minister to

fight for the department's money,

despite his own panicked reaction.

Do you mean help

him overcome his panic?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

No, let him panic.

Politicians like to panic,

they need activity.

It's their substitute

for achievement.

So accurate was Yes Minister's

portrayal of the inner-workings

of Government that politically

astute fans of the show suspected

the writers were getting their

storylines straight from the top.

Well, I assumed that they

had inside sources.

If they hadn't, then

they were just pure genius.

Politicians are extremely indiscreet

and the higher up they get,

the more indiscreet they are.

It wasn't difficult to get people

to come and have lunch with us

if it was a reasonably decent

restaurant.

And after the third glass of wine,

all sorts of interesting

information emerged.

And one high ranking official

willing to be wined and dined

was former

Prime Ministerial head of policy,

Bernard Donoghue, who was to

become their top informer.

I was quite happy to inform them,

because I felt, basically,

the public had a right to know

what was going on.

They would say to me, "We want to

know if that's how the Prime Minister

"would receive ministers,

civil servants.

"How they would speak to one another,

"how policy issues were

processed through."

What I was able to do was,

tell them tales, stories of episodes

from my experience in Number Ten,

which I thought were either

revealing of the nature of the

power relationships there, and

especially of the bureaucratic power,

or which I thought were funny

or capable of being made funny.

One story Bernard

informed on involved an overseas

diplomatic mission,

which the writers quickly

transformed into a classic

episode of Yes, Minister.

I told them about a time when

we went on a state visit

to India and Pakistan.

And at the state reception there was

no alcohol, just orange juice.

And we thought it would be

very helpful

if we could get some

whisky in the orange juice.

So we'd drink a third of the glass

and then pour the whisky in,

which would look a little brown,

but not dangerously suspicious.

But how do we get the whisky there?

I mentioned that and Jonathan said,

"I can use that."

Ah, Bernard.

Bernard.

Yes?

You're wanted in the communications

room.

A Mr John Walker.

What's interesting about that story,

which...is that we're talking

to a cabinet minister who didn't

know about it, who saw the episode.

He said, he knew at once that was

based on a real episode.

Because he recognised that's exactly

what is likely to happen

and does happen, whereas most of the

audience has probably thought,

"Oh, well, they've gone a bit far

this time."

That's right.

The interesting thing is, whenever we

were accused of going too far,

it was something that had happened.

Any messages

in the communications room?

Oh, there is one for Sir

Humphrey, Minister.

Oh, good, yes?

Yes, the Soviet Embassy is on the

line, Sir Humphrey, a Mr Smirnoff.

Soviets!

They promised me that it

would not be revealed that

I'd played any part.

I just never told anyone myself.

I knew they never told anyone.

Jonathan and Antony never told me

who else they talked to.

I didn't tell anyone,

I didn't tell my own family.

These insider insights over lunch

provided such a rich source

of comedy, that Yes, Minister

soon became must-see TV

amongst politicians

and civil servants alike.

And it wasn't long before those

at the very heart of government

were willing to reveal all.

One of many.

I was

one of many inside sources, yes.

You don't tell them state secrets,

but that's quite different.

You tell them how government works

and how the civil service works.

If I thought of some little story,

some anecdote,

which might be of use to him,

I would tell him.

I can't remember it all now,

it was a long time ago.

But for example, the, er,

ministerial Christmas list,

Christmas card list.

That was something which

I mentioned to him,

and that duly

came into one of the episodes.

Bernard, this is important,

I have to finish these

Cabinet defence papers.

I'm afraid this is much more

urgent, Minister.

What is it?

Your Christmas cards, Minister.

They cannot be postponed any longer.

Oh right.

Oh!

Which is which?

Well they're all clearly labelled,

Minister, these you sign Jim,

these you sign Jim Hacker,

these Jim and Annie,

these Annie and Jim Hacker,

these love from Annie and Jim.

As the series progressed,

we were approached by various people

in all branches of

government, eager to ell us things.

They wanted to, they had something

they wanted to leak, because

it would be in their, to their

advantage in some way to do so.

Jonathan and Antony have never

named their sources.

But I wonder what our esteemed

select committee make of these

revelations and, more importantly,

if there's a leaky

minister in their midst?

Michael, I want to start with

you about leaks,

because obviously the series was

written when you were in government.

And it is generally well

believed that the

sources for a lot of the stories

came from people in government.

I wonder if you can help us

as honestly as you can...

Yeah, well, it's true.

As to how much went to...

When I was Environment Secretary

in the early '80s,

the authors

of the programme wrote and said,

"We're doing a programme

and we'd very much like to meet you

"and we're...a particular scene is

going to be about the battle

"between the Secretary of State

and a local authority".

And I said, "Fine."

I had lunch, we had a very good

lunch, and we laughed a lot,

and they laughed a lot,

and I don't know, they probably

recorded it, and, fine.

And it made a fantastic programme.

Local councillors, in practice,

are accountable to nobody.

They're public-spirited citizens,

selflessly sacrificing

their spare time.

Have you ever met any?

Occasionally,

when there was no alternative.

Half of them are self-centred

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