Citizenfour Page #7
I think the more public we are
out there too, like as journalists,
the more protection
that's gonna give as well.
Have you started to give thought to
when you're ready to come forward?
I'm ready whenever, um...
Honestly, I think
there's sort of an agreement
that it's not going to bias
the reporting process.
That's my primary concern at this point.
I don't want to get myself
into the issue
before it's gonna happen anyway,
and where it takes away
from the stories that are getting out.
We're talking about tens
of millions of Americans,
who weren't suspected of doing anything,
who were surveilled in this way.
Hold your thoughts for a moment.
I want to continue this conversation
because these are really important,
sensitive issues,
and the public out there
has a right to know what's going on.
This is CNN Breaking News.
Another explosive article
has just appeared,
this time in The Washington Post.
It's breaking news
and it reveals another broad
and secret US government
surveillance program.
The Washington Post
and The Guardian in London
reporting that the NSA and the FBI
are tapping directly
into the central servers
of nine leading Internet companies,
including Microsoft,
Yahoo, Google, Facebook,
AOL, Skype, YouTube, and Apple.
The Post says they're extracting audio,
video, photographs, emails, documents,
and connection logs that enable analysts
to track a person's movements
and contacts over time.
Let's discuss this latest revelation...
they're coming out fast. Bill Binney,
former official of the NSA
who quit back in 2001,
you were angry over what was going on,
you are known
as a whistleblower right now.
Bill, what do you think about
this Washington Post story?
Well, I assume it's just a continuation
of what they've been doing all along.
So you're not surprised.
Do you have any idea who is
leaking this information?
I don't know who leaked this.
I have no doubt that the administration
will launch an investigation,
not into who approved these programs
but into who leaked the information.
I'm not shocked
the companies are denying it,
- I don't assume...
- Do you believe them?
There may be some technical basis
on which they can say that
we are not actively collaborating
or they don't have what we consider
in our own definition
to be direct access to our servers
but what I do know is that I've talked
to more than one person
who has sat at a desk at a web portal
and typed out commands and reached
into those servers from a distance.
So whatever they want to call that,
that's what's happening.
Well, what I would call it
is the single biggest infringement
on American civil liberties
probably of all time, isn't it?
It's interesting, already
you have The New York Times
now today saying that the administration
has lost all credibility.
The New York Times
slammed President Obama for this,
and frankly I was used to that.
The New York Times
used to slam George Bush
for protecting the country
and for the steps he took.
I don't want us to drop our guard,
I don't want us to be struck again.
As we saw in Boston,
Anderson, people are willing
to sacrifice their civil liberties.
People sheltered inside...
How can you believe
in freedom, do you think...
I mean, try and play
Devil's Advocate for me,
when you have secret courts,
secret operations like PRISM,
secret investigations which go
into every spit and cough
of every American's lives,
without any member of the American
public knowing about it.
That's not freedom, is it?
In 2008, they eliminated
the warrant requirement
for all conversations
except ones that take place
by and among Americans
exclusively on American soil.
So they don't need warrants
now for people
who are foreigners outside of the US,
but they also don't need
warrants for Americans
who are in the United States
communicating with people
reasonably believed to be
outside of the US.
So again, the fact that there are
no checks, no oversight
about who is looking
over the NSA's shoulder,
means that they can take
whatever they want.
And the fact that it's all
behind a wall of secrecy
and they threaten people
who want to expose it,
means that whatever they're doing,
even violating the law,
is something that we're unlikely to know
until we start having real investigations
and real transparency into
what it is that the government is doing.
Glenn Greenwald, congratulations again
on exposing what is a true scandal.
I appreciate you joining me.
I just heard from Lindsay,
and uh, she's still alive,
which is good, and free.
My rent checks apparently are no longer
getting through to my landlord,
uh, so they said if we don't pay them
in five days we'll be evicted,
which is strange
because I've got a system set
up that automatically pays them.
Uh, so there's that,
and apparently
there's construction trucks
all over the street of my house,
so that's uh...
I wonder what they're looking for.
It is... uh, it is an unusual feeling
that's kind of hard to...
hard to like describe or...
or convey in words,
but not knowing what's going to
happen the next day,
the next hour, the next week,
it's scary,
but at the same time it's liberating.
You know, the, uh...
the planning comes a lot easier
because you don't have that many
variables to take into play.
You can only act and then act again.
Now all these phone calls
are being recorded digitally,
not for content
but for origin and destination,
now word the government is going
right into the servers
of these large Internet companies.
How does the government,
politically speaking,
make the argument that this is
essential to national security
and not a dramatic overreach
in terms of personal privacy?
It's difficult Matt, because,
as Peter was pointing out,
overnight we had an extraordinary,
late-night... close to midnight...
announcement and a declassification
from the Director
of National Intelligence.
They are scrambling.
The administration's already supported
strongly by leaders in both parties
from the intelligence committees.
GCHQ has an internal Wikipedia,
at the top secret,
you know, super classified level, uh,
where anybody working intelligence
can work on anything they want.
Yep.
That's what this is, I'm giving it to you,
you can make the decisions on that,
what's appropriate, what's not.
It's going to be
documents of different types,
pictures and PowerPoints,
Word documents, stuff like that.
- Um...
- Sorry, can I take a seat?
Yeah.
Sorry, I get you to repeat,
so in these documents they all show...
Yeah, there'll be a couple
more documents on that,
that's only one part though.
Like, it talks about Tempora
and a little more thing,
that's the Wiki article itself.
It was also talking about
a self-developed tool
called UDAQ, U-D-A-Q.
It's their search tool
for all the stuff they collect,
was what it looked like.
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