Deliver Us from Evil Page #4

and we had a conference,

and I had mentioned that perhaps

I should need some counseling

to get an understanding of this,

and the bishop kind of at that time

said, "Okay, go ahead and do that. "

You know, I'd say, "Bless me,

Father, for I have sinned. L... "

Sometimes it's good

to give them a time limit

as to when your last

confession was,

and say, "Well, I'd been with

some friends of mine yesterday,

"and some of them

are young children,

"and I had the opportunity

to be alone with one of them,

"and I did some things

such as to touch his private parts,

"and took occasion

to do that a few times

"when he was alone with me,

"and...

"I want to confess that right now,

ask forgiveness and absolution. "

If it had come to your attention

that Father O'Grady told

your vicar-general

that he had sexual urges

towards a 9-year-old

or 10-year-old or an 11-year old,

is that cause to remove

him from ministry?

No.

And the Church just moved him

to another place where they have kids.

Why didn't they just take him out?

Why didn't they admit it?

There was no action taken

that would remove him from children,

and so when you transfer him

from one place to another,

it's...

just a tragedy waiting to happen.

Like again, the '84 situation,

what brought it up

was, you know, I'm not

feeling right inside.

There's something not right.

I need to take care of this.

When I had mentioned it

to my counselor,

this time a professional counselor...

he was a layman...

He was very helpful, you know?

And he about pulled

the whole tablecloth

out from under me, you know?

And all of a sudden,

I saw this massive...

problem, you know,

that I had,

these tendencies that I had,

and this vale of destruction

that I had created

as a result of that.

And that was very frightening,

very difficult to comprehend,

and even to want to comprehend

at that particular time

that that was going on.

But that's what he did

when he confronted me,

and said, "I need to report this,"

and he meant report it

to the authorities...

police department...

and that really scared me, you know?

That really woke me up.

My counselor suggested

that I now talk

to the bishop's office.

Well, I'm aware right now

that a personnel file

is kept on each person,

so I would tend to think that,

knowing Mahony as he is,

that he would have

gone through all those

and would have seen any references

that would have been in the file

regarding the 1973

and 1976 issues,

and that, I think,

should have told him

that there was, you know,

not just a one-shot deal,

but there was at least

two prior situations

that needed to be dealt with.

I should have been removed...

and attended to,

and he should also,

then, have followed up

by attending to the people

that I harmed.

I'd like if he had done that.

I'd like if all of the bishops had done that.

Now, I didn't talk

to Mahony right away.

I think I talked to the other monsignor

that was there, Monsignor Cain.

Did you think it was important in 1984

that the Stockton Police Department

be advised not only of the information

concerning young Mr. Howard,

but also that there had been

a prior allegation

by Nancy Sloan's family

of inappropriate touching?

No.

Well, how would they uncover

what happened to Nancy Sloan,

unless someone from

the diocese told them?

They wouldn't,

and at the time,

the two just were not related.

They just didn't coordinate.

What do you mean when you say

they weren't related,

they didn't coordinate?

Well, at the time of...

that he came in in '84

to talk about this incident,

certainly...

I knew the one in '76 took place,

but I didn't put the two together.

One was a girl.

It was inappropriate touching.

The other was a boy, he said,

so I just didn't hook them up

in my own mind.

Monsignor Cain then suggested

I talk to the diocesan attorney.

Oh, it was very difficult, yeah,

because I was, you know, kind of...

you know that kind

of unknowing thing?

I could be arrested.

Where could I end up, you know?

This could be...

What will my family think?

What will anybody think

when this happens, you know?

Mahony did call me.

He was out of town with some meeting.

I can't remember where.

But when he did get back,

he did talk to me.

I remember saying to him,

I said, "You know, Bishop,

this whole thing

has been going on for the past"...

and I'd been keeping

a record of the days...

"40 days. "

It was, like, actually 40 days.

I said, "It's"...

I said, "It's been a real

desert experience for me,"

using an analogy from the Scripture

and, you know, the whole

"40 years in the desert" type of thing.

I said, "It's been a real Lenten

experience for me, I guess,"

I said, "even outside of Lent. "

And he was very supportive, you know.

He was very compassionate.

I felt at the time...

I think he was merely calling

to check how I was doing,

because he obviously knew

I had been very stressed out

over the situation,

and I told him that, you know.

And he got back to me.

He said, "This is where we are:

"No charge is being filed,

but we are moving you on,

and here's a couple of other parts

to the package deal. "

The bishop, the attorneys,

and the police department

decided that maybe it was best

to move me on to another situation

out of the particular county

in which these charges will be filed,

and then to...

they'll let me take care

of the business there.

And Mahony's people

promised the police

that he would never

have another parish,

that he wouldn't be around kids,

and they'd take care of it.

In the Vatican Ecclesiastical system,

there's this term that's used.

It's an Italian word

which means good impression,

good image.

One of the aspects,

one of the factors

in a man being successful

in the Church

is that he create a good image,

and that's what Roger was

very much concerned about,

that there be this image

of a very upright, loyal,

orthodox bishop,

soon to become archbishop hopefully,

because he would be the only

choice for the pope

to be the archbishop of Los Angeles.

And the thing he had to do, then,

was to take O'Grady, to avoid scandal,

and any scrutiny on him in particular,

was to move him

to an outlying parish

far away from where the police

would have jurisdiction,

which was in Stockton at the time,

and move him out to San Andreas...

St. Andrew's in San Andreas...

way out there in the hinterland,

and put him out there

in a very quiet little bucolic setting,

where there was no other supervisor,

just O'Grady,

and nobody would know,

and the police wouldn't know,

the public wouldn't know,

the parishioners and the victims

over there wouldn't know,

and Rome wouldn't know.

I'd taken the depositions

of cardinals, archbishops,

and bishops across this country

for 23 years,

and what I've encountered is deception,

perjury, denial, and deceit

at the highest levels

of the Catholic Church.

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