Norman Lear: Just Another Version of You Page #5

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No more busting my back

on the loading dock at Brady's.

This means good pay, good jobs,

and goodbye, 79-cent muscatel,

and hello, $1.50 champagne!

[ Cork pops ]

[ "Ain't No Mountain

High Enough" plays ]

-The vibe couldn't have been

better going into the show.

Everybody

was enjoying themselves.

Everybody was having

a great time.

Then something changed

with the adult players...

[ Music stops ]

...because a sense

of responsibility

to their audience,

to their race,

descended on them.

-Esther, in the first act,

you're the one

who says to...

to Thelma...

-Mm-hmm.

-..."What's the matter with --

If you don't have

the same interests, honey,

there's something wrong."

I mean, in effect,

that's what you're saying.

You recognize that they don't

have the same interests.

-No, I'm saying

that it's not necessary

to have the same interests.

-Well, I don't follow.

She's upset that she doesn't

have the same interests,

so you say, "Okay."

-There were lines

that were dropped on you

that were meant for you to say

because you were black.

And I had to see

behind all of that foolishness

and say, "No, no, no, no, no.

I can't say that."

But yet, some of the things

I was saying in the beginning --

-Yeah, but to do that

is to ignore completely

what's happening.

-Right, right.

-And it's...

-Esther and I both

had assumed the responsibility

of being the first

black family on TV,

and I was worried

about what people would think.

I didn't want to be seen

in a role

that was gonna disparage

and denigrate a black family.

I wasn't gonna do it.

I wanted it to be right.

-She's the fuse

that sets off Kid Dy-no-mite!

-Once he said "dy-no-mite,"

there would be a space

of maybe half a page,

10, 15, 20 seconds,

which can be an eternity

in television,

where the writers

wouldn't have to write.

"Just let him say 'dy-no-mite,'

and we can coast for a while."

-Well, I don't know

about Kid Dy-no-mite!

It grates on my nerves.

I couldn't stand it.

To make him the most

popular black in America,

in these United States, was...

a way of putting us all down.

-Greetings

from The Chicken Shack!

-I insist

that you can have comedy

without buffoonery.

[ Indistinct conversations ]

-Oh.

-Okay.

-Oh.

-John ain't here.

-Why?

-He's sick,

but he'll be in tomorrow.

So we have a guy

who's been standing in.

What's his name?

-We had to do the show

for 26 weeks,

and it had to be good.

But we couldn't deal

with this reaction

of actors being upset

with the script all the time.

It was extraneous

to the needs of a show

that had to be done every week.

-Thelma?

Where's Thelma?

-And so I sat everybody down

and said,

"These are decisions

I'm gonna have to make.

I'm not black,

but I am a father,

I am an uncle,

I am a brother, I'm a son.

I'm all of those male things

that John is,

and I don't think

there's any difference.

You guys know the language,

the behavior, the...

But we share the same feelings.

-He said, "John, don't take this

quite so seriously."

He said,

"You've got a wonderful role.

Enjoy it."

But I was taking it extremely

personally, to the point

that the writers

got tired of their lives

being threatened over jokes

and scriptand punch lines.

My thing was, take the crap

out, or let's fight.

[ Knocking ]

[ Tape rewinding ]

- Revolution has come

Time to pick up the guns

-One day, three members

of the Black Panthers

stormed into my offices at CBS,

saying they'd "come

to see the garbage man."

"Good Times" was garbage,

they said,

and on they ranted.

Shows nothing

but a white man's version

of a black family.

-Who you supposed to be?

-I'm Michael, J.J.'s brother.

-The character of J.J.

is a put-down.

Every time you see a black man

on the tube,

he is dirt poor,

wears...clothes,

can't afford nothing.

We got black men in America

doing better than most whites.

-Get yourself together, blood.

We got to move.

-I said, "Hold on,

hold on, hold on.

Okay, let's talk."

And that may have had as much

to do as anything else

with the, "Why don't we

make 'The Jeffersons'?"

- Fish don't fry

in the kitchen

Beans don't burn

on the grill

Took a whole lot of trying

Just to get up that hill

As long as we live,

it's you and me, baby

There ain't

nothing wrong with that

Well, we're moving on up

-I wanted to get off my chin,

but whatever.

- To the East Side

- Moving on up

-Cream.

We finally got

a piece of the pie

-"Good Times" was,

you know, it was cool.

I mean, it was an insight

into a loving family.

You get to like them,

get to speak like them.

"Good Times"

was for white people.

For white people

to get to know them

and maybe sympathize with them,

maybe love them,

maybe see them in the street

and want to talk to them.

"The Jeffersons"

was for black people.

Aspirational,

angry to some degree --

"The Jeffersons"

represented the American Dream

for black people.

-Oh, hi.

-Hi.

-Uh, George,

this is Diane Stockwell.

Diane, this is my husband,

George.

-Do both of y'all live here?

-Uh-huh.

Some place, ain't it?

-Yeah.

I didn't know

the Jeffersons had a couple.

-A couple of what?

-A maid and a butler.

You two.

-Butler?

-What?

-Yeah, they must be real rich.

-Hold it, Diane.

We are the Jeffersons.

-[ Coughing ]

[ Laughs ]

-You're right, Louise --

He's a great joker.

-I don't remember the first time

I saw George Jefferson,

but I do know

what I got from him.

He taught me how to walk.

George would poke his chest out,

let you know --

"I ain't no punk,

and I'm as good as you."

It wasn't even necessarily

out of anger

as much as it was,

"This is real.

Are you blind?"

-George, why do we have

to fight so much?

If we have a problem,

why can't we just

talk it through

like Tom and Helen?

They don't fight.

-They don't fight

'cause they're scared to fight.

-What's that supposed to mean?

-You know damn well

what it means.

If you two ever really

started going at one another,

inside of five minutes,

he'd be calling you ...

-Don't say it.

-n*gger.

-He said it.

-It was so progressive then.

It was such a smart, insightful,

and important dialogue.

And Norman Lear was part

of the healing

in what he gave us.

-As a producer

of television shows,

I and my fellow producers

are constantly testing

and experimenting

with new concepts.

-Hello, Norman.

-Ah, Weiskopf.

Tell me, sir...

what is new with the new series?

-The father

is a union organizer.

-A union organizer.

-The mother is his boss,

the president

of a large steel company.

-Mm.

-But the father is proud,

and they live on his money.

-Mm-hmm.

-Now, the daughter is a nun,

and their son

is a gay state trooper.

-Norman is a hell of a salesman,

and when he's got

that selling light on,

he's hard to say "no" to.

And, of course,

he's a fountain of ideas.

-See that glow?

-What glow?

Do you mean the waxy

yellow buildup?

-What do you mean?

It is a little yellow, isn't it?

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